Ed Lansdale, prototype of the "Ugly American"

[Barry Pollard]

^For his work with and settling in Diem correct?  Around '56?
Tricky hadn't even gotten his pants off yet but yes.

Also Richard, I did just watch one of Max Boot's book talks on Ed so thanks for the heads up.
Max is easy to listen to which always helps, pehaps a wee bit conformist but what can you do?

[Robert Reeves]

^For his work with and settling in Diem correct?  Around '56?
Tricky hadn't even gotten his pants off yet but yes.

I'm not 100% sure which medal Lansdale is receiving from tricky dicky. A couple of obituary write ups mention Lansdale was awarded two Distinguished Service Medals.

Gen. Lansdale received two Distinguished Service Medals for work in developing counterinsurgency tactics in Vietnam and for services as adviser to Magsaysay in the Philippines.

above from wapo -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1987/02/24/edward-lansdale-prototype-for-ugly-american-dies/d2ff2042-05c8-4f1d-b12d-972bf8338b14/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.68356d6e4c99

below from -- https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/48264

AWARDED FOR ACTIONS
DURING Cold War
Service: Air Force
GENERAL ORDERS:
Department of the Air Force, General Orders No. 69 (1956)

CITATION:
(Citation Needed) - SYNOPSIS: Colonel Edward G. Lansdale (AFSN: 2534A), United States Air Force, was awarded the Air Force Distinguished Service Medal (Army Design) for exceptionally meritorious and distinguished services to the Government of the United States, in a duty of great responsibility as Assistant to the Secretary of Defense in matters of great importance Indo-China during the period from 1954 to 1956. The singularly distinctive accomplishments of General Lansdale and his dedicated contributions in the service of his country reflect the highest credit upon himself and the United States Air Force.

Seeing that picture of Nixon doing the 'honors' of awarding Lansdale his medal kinda brings it home how chummy Nixon & Lansdale's relationship probably was. You don't really see it mentioned by anyone, the relationship between the two.

Nixon would have obviously been well aware of Lansdale's abilities for: 1. wiping people off the planet 2. being an expert Kingmaker.

[Richard Rubio]

I'm not 100% sure which medal Lansdale is receiving from tricky dicky. A couple of obituary write ups mention Lansdale was awarded two Distinguished Service Medals.
above from wapo -- https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1987/02/24/edward-lansdale-prototype-for-ugly-american-dies/d2ff2042-05c8-4f1d-b12d-972bf8338b14/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.68356d6e4c99

below from -- https://valor.militarytimes.com/hero/48264

Seeing that picture of Nixon doing the 'honors' of awarding Lansdale his medal kinda brings it home how chummy Nixon & Lansdale's relationship probably was. You don't really see it mentioned by anyone, the relationship between the two.

Nixon would have obviously been well aware of Lansdale's abilities for: 1. wiping people off the planet 2. being an expert Kingmaker.

Any backup to the above? That just seems like slander. Nothing to back this up except the words of people like Fletcher Prouty. If no backup, really, slander by the CTers; another thing that seems to make their views less viable.

[Richard Rubio]

Kennedy tried to have Castro killed, that is virtually undeniable, despite revisionism, some say he had Diem overthrown and if we throw out the same tawdry rumors as the CTers say, perhaps, we could say Marilyn was intentionally killed.

Most egregiously, in 1963, Washington decided to overthrow Diem, a nationalist if flawed leader. Lansdale had warned that years of political chaos would follow, as indeed they did.

Lansdale was onto something. For all his flaws, Diem probably would have led a more stable, tougher government than the ones that followed his. In this environment, the United States may have been less compelled to deploy hundreds of thousands of soldiers and Marines. ?At the very least the war?s loss would have been less painful all around if Lansdale?s advice had been heeded,? Boot writes. ?He had never wanted to see half a million American troops thrashing around Vietnam, suffering and inflicting heavy casualties. His approach, successful or not, would have been more humane and less costly.?

Boot?s broader message is that skilled, locally savvy advisors could have yielded better results not just in Vietnam ? but also in America?s more recent wars. A major shortcoming in Iraq and Afghanistan was the lack of on-the-ground leaders with Lansdale?s level of local knowledge and people skills, Boot contends. In his view, there was no Lansdale-like rapport with national leaders. In sharp contrast to Lansdale?s privileged ties to Magsaysay and Diem, the United States had poor relationships with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki and Afghan President Hamid Karzai, and it could not dissuade them from bad decisions that ended up fueling support for insurgents and terrorists.


https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/01/16/edward-lansdale-and-americas-vietnam-demons-vietnam-war-max-boot/

http://www.historynet.com/ed-lansdales-black-warfare-in-1950s-vietnam.htm

https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/books-and-monographs/Anthology-CIA-and-the-Wars-in-Southeast-Asia/pdfs/ahern-cia-ngo-in-dinh-diem.pdf

Real talk on the Kennedy/Johnson Vietnam war. Not nut job conspiracy.

[Robert Reeves]

Any backup to the above? That just seems like slander. Nothing to back this up except the words of people like Fletcher Prouty. If no backup, really, slander by the CTers; another thing that seems to make their views less viable.

I presume you take offence, in your silly passive aggressive post's, re my suggestion Lansdale was really good at having people killed?? -- even though you've been posting about Operation Mongoose ... which Lansdale was tasked with overseeing. Aka, the guy you take offence to being described as a killer was given the task to kill/remove Castro, by any means.

[Richard Rubio]

Per Michael Walton (forum member and from the other forum), the alleged Lansdale with the 3 tramps, well, that guy is wearing glasses, good luck if one can prove Lansdale wore glasses.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxczd5THIwOEpiY2c/view



Lansdale kicked Prouty back to the airforce.  Prouty may have had some sour grapes with Lansdale.  One would have to read into it. Any photos of Lansdale with glasses anyone?

What a sharp graphic, thank you Michael.

[Robert Reeves]

Per Michael Walton (forum member and from the other forum), the alleged Lansdale with the 3 tramps, well, that guy is wearing glasses, good luck if one can prove Lansdale wore glasses.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Hr9Lrku-Cxczd5THIwOEpiY2c/view



Lansdale kicked Prouty back to the airforce.  Prouty may have had some sour grapes with Lansdale.  One would have to read into it. Any photos of Lansdale with glasses anyone?

What a sharp graphic, thank you Michael.

Well, Sterling Seagrave, who knew Lansdale - he stated that Lansdale sometimes wore glasses.

Antti ~

That sure looks like Lansdale's skull and hairline. He had a very pronounced facial and skull structure. I don't know if he always wore glasses, because I did not meet him until just before the Bay of Pigs. (I had been in Cuba during 1958-1959, and had a good Cuban source who was a medical doctor on one of the invasion ships, who gave me his diary of the disaster, which I translated for the Post.) Lansdale did wear glasses then, with a "bridle" or whatever those straps are called to keep them around your neck, and I could swear that the man in this photo Peter posted has such a bridle dangling behind his ears toward his collar. I'm sure that Fletcher Prouty was able to judge based on this view alone. I have other reasons for taking Fletcher seriously. He was a remarkably good source for me when I was at The Washington Post (1962-1965), on a wide range of investigations not having anything to do with Lansdale. And he continued to be an excellent source for my book The Marcos Dynasty, since Prouty flew VIPs back and forth between Washington and Manila, was an insider on the cocktail circuit in Georgetown, and spent so many years as liaison between the DIA and CIA.

Sterling

from http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/13678-edward-lansdale/?do=findComment&comment=159598

For whatever reasons, and there are some legit, you don't hold up Prouty as much cop. That he isn't worthy of opinion re Lansdale, even though he knew Lansdale since the 40's. They shared an office at the Pentagon for 8 years. But Seagrove seems to take Prouty's word as probably being fact. You might be surprised but I am not even sure what Prouty is up to when it comes to Lansdale. I don't see where he steered conclusive proof of Lansdale being in Dealey Plaza. I find the side view of a man that looks more like Lansdale to be more credible.


The entire Lansdale topic at the EF is very interesting http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/13678-edward-lansdale/

[Barry Pollard]

Neither hero or villain IMHO, just a man serving his country and president.
The chief says go wipe out that village and you do it, or you resign, simple.
Capturing the hearts and minds of the people has a darker side and in the end it all boiis down to one thing.
Remember that time when you heard for the first time that your country interfered with the natural progress of another?
That's it, the one thing.
So instead of dropping napalm he dropped leaflets, leaflets that terrified people, or got them riled up, angry and turning against their neighbors,
anything he could do to install another client, so we could bleed the country dry and repress the peasants. What a guy.

I'd like to know what Max Boot learnt about Mongoose.
He claims thier operations were wrapped up during the CMC and I thought... wth is he talking about?
He also said Ed didn't want that job but ultimately "how do you say no to the Pres'?".

Also, recieving a medal for "interfering in other nations affairs", or for "installing clients and dictators in places where they're not wanted" will not be in the memos.