Did LHO know how to drive? Does it matter?

[Doug Easterly]

From what I've read, the courts have long held that in "exigent" or emergency situations that people's Fourth Amendment rights against illegal searches and seizures can be suspended.

This is clearly for me one of those instances. Was Baker supposed to get a search warrant? Stop and ask Oswald questions?

Although who knows what the Oswald defenders will say in response. It's always a crapshoot.

True. And like I said, an innocent party would have no problem helping out the police in the situation.

[Jon Banks]

Jon, I wouldnt be questioning him if he declined to watch the parade but for the fact that he isnt curious as to what the bedlam going on outside the building is about. Thats the suspicious nature I would find interesting as an officer, that it doesn't reflect normal human action. Obviously, it did get attention from the officer as he stopped and asked the supervisor who Lee was when he saw him in the break room. The supervisor replied he was an employee. Nonetheless, I personally would have found his NON reaction curious and directed someone to stay with him.

I think you're assuming too much. Officer Baker didn't have enough time to closely inspect every single person he encountered.

There were people standing in the doorway of TSBD. For all Baker knew, Oswald could've been one of the people who watched the parade from the First Floor Lobby

What I've found more suspicious than your example is the fact that the men who watched the parade from the 5th Floor window claimed they heard shell casings drop above them but didn't call the police.

[John Iacoletti]

From what I've read, the courts have long held that in "exigent" or emergency situations that people's Fourth Amendment rights against illegal searches and seizures can be suspended.

Only if there exists probable cause that the person has committed a crime.  They had none.

It was later adjudicated to allow a "stop and frisk" for weapons if the officer had reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person may be armed and presently dangerous.  But this was several years away, still.  Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)

However, they had no such reasonable suspicion towards a guy buying a coke in a second floor lunchroom.

This is clearly for me one of those instances. Was Baker supposed to get a search warrant? Stop and ask Oswald questions?

A cop can ask anybody whatever questions they like.  It's free speech.  Just not detain, search, or arrest them.

[John Iacoletti]

True. And like I said, an innocent party would have no problem helping out the police in the situation.

Declining to cooperate with whatever a police officer wants you to do does not make a person guilty of a crime.

[Bill Chapman]

Only if there exists probable cause that the person has committed a crime.  They had none.

It was later adjudicated to allow a "stop and frisk" for weapons if the officer had reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person may be armed and presently dangerous.  But this was several years away, still.  Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)

However, they had no such reasonable suspicion towards a guy buying a coke in a second floor lunchroom.

A cop can ask anybody whatever questions they like.  It's free speech.  Just not detain, search, or arrest them.

FFS

If one has nothing to hide, why would one not be willing to set aside those details of law in order assist the authorities especially on 11.22.63? Seems one would need to have an uncommon, even pathological, problem with authority to not want to offer assistance.

[John Mytton]

Only if there exists probable cause that the person has committed a crime.  They had none.

As soon as Oswald punched McDonald in the face, Oswald had committed a crime.

JohnM

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Only if there exists probable cause that the person has committed a crime.  They had none.

It was later adjudicated to allow a "stop and frisk" for weapons if the officer had reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime and has a reasonable belief that the person may be armed and presently dangerous.  But this was several years away, still.  Terry v. Ohio, 392 U.S. 1 (1968)

However, they had no such reasonable suspicion towards a guy buying a coke in a second floor lunchroom.

A cop can ask anybody whatever questions they like.  It's free speech.  Just not detain, search, or arrest them.

I have no understanding at all about Texas laws in 1963 - and am unsure about US law at that time (pre-Terry) - but under current law there is no requirement of "probable cause" for the police to use in order to detain or question a person in exigent or emergency situations. That is the standard for so-called "Terry stops" and not for an emergency situation involving a crime in progress, which this was. 

Again: emergencies.

The standard in emergency situations is: "Those circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of a suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts.' United States v. McConney, 728 F.2d 1195, 1199 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 469 U.S. 824 (1984)."

Baker's situation, for me, clearly falls in the above circumstances since he did not know who Oswald was or what he was doing. As he said in his 11/22 affidavit: "As we reached the third or fourth floor I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to the man and he turned around and came back toward me."

Nothing about a man in the lunch roon buying a Coke. Who was this person? Was he a shooter? Was he an accomplice? Was he a lookout? It was certainly reasonable to me that this person could have been involved in some way (guess what? he was). Baker was investigating a situation in flux, a shooting in progress. How would he know who was part of that shooting and who wasn't? He couldn't, it was an emergency.

In fact, as we know, right after the shooting the DPD secured the entire building and detained every employee for questioning. Oswald would have been one of them had he not left earlier.

[Rob Caprio]

There were numerous sightings of either LHO or someone who strongly resembled him driving an automobile and these can be found in the twenty-six volumes.