Since the topic has come up this post seems appropriate.
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The Warren Commission (WC) said that Lee Harvey Oswald (LHO) fired three shots from the sixth floor southeastern window of the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) window. They had NO evidence showing LHO was on the sixth floor at the time of the shooting so the next best option they had was the testimony of three men who were on the fifth floor of the TSBD during the assassination. This post will look at their words.********************************
The three men on the fifth floor were Bonnie Ray Williams, Harold Norman and James Jarman. Let?s look at their testimonies to see what they heard and possibly saw on November 22, 1963.
Williams said he ate his chicken sandwich, Fritos and Dr. Pepper on the sixth floor and never saw anyone there when he was there.Mr. DULLES. You ate your lunch on the sixth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. DULLES.
And you were all alone?Mr. WILLIAMS.
Yes, sir.He would stay until either 12:15 or close to 12:20 p.m. too, and yet he saw or heard no one else on the sixth floor! True, there were boxes stacked up, but he did NOT HEAR anyone else on the sixth floor while he was there. Keep in mind, the rifle was allegedly disassembled so LHO would have had to reassemble this and that would have made noise. So would removing it from a paper bag, but Williams heard NOTHING. How could LHO wait until possibly as late as 12:20 p.m. to do all that he had to do and still shoot President John F. Kennedy (JFK) when he was due past there at 12:25 p.m.? [Note: JFK was running five minutes late due to a longer stay at Love Field, but LHO would NOT know this.]Mr. BALL. Now, do you know what time that was?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I do not know the exact time.
Mr. BALL. It was?
Mr. WILLIAMS. It was after I had left the sixth floor, after I had eaten the chicken sandwich. I finished the chicken sandwich maybe 10 or 15 minutes after 12. I could say approximately what time it was.
Mr. BALL.
Approximately what time was it?Mr. WILLIAMS.
Approximately 12:20, maybe.Furthermore, Williams makes a comment that is very illuminating as it shows OTHERS planned to go up to the sixth floor to watch the motorcade.Mr. BALL. You say you went back upstairs. Where did you go?
Mr. WILLIAMS. I went back up to the sixth floor.
Mr. BALL.
Why did you go to the sixth floor?Mr. WILLIAMS. Well,
at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.Mr. BALL.
Did anybody go back?Mr. WILLIAMS.
Nobody came back up. So I just left.
This testimony causes us to ask some serious questions. Firstly, why did Lovelady NOT come up as he said he was going to according to Williams? Why did Arce not come up either? Why did no one come up as they said they were going to do? Secondly, and even more seriously, why would LHO pick a floor that would have people on it to shoot JFK from? These are questions that were NEVER asked let alone answered from what I have read for twenty-five years.
After eating his lunch, and seeing no one else was coming up, he left for the fifth floor.Mr. BALL. Where did you go when you left there?
Mr. WILLIAMS.
I went down to the fifth floor.He then stopped on the fifth floor to see if anyone was there. He was kind of sure they were based on what they heard. This is KEY testimony so read it carefully.Mr. BALL. Why did you stop on the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. To see if there was anyone there.
Mr. BALL. Did you know there was anyone there before you started down?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well,
I thought I heard somebody walking, the windows moving or something. I said maybe someone is down there, I said to myself. And I just went on down.
Mr. BALL. Did you find anybody there?
Mr. WILLIAMS. As I remember, when I was walking up, I think Harold Norman and James Jarman as I remember, they was down facing the Elm Street on the fifth floor, as I remember.
Notice how he said he thought ?he heard someone walking? and ?windows moving or something?, but the WC would claim these three men did NOT hear anyone walking or running on the sixth floor! Why not?
Jarman would also head to the fifth floor with Norman.Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. JARMAN -
To the fifth floor.Mr. BALL - Why did you go to the fifth floor?
Mr. JARMAN - We just decided to go to the fifth floor.
Mr. BALL -
Was there any reason why you should go to the fifth floor any more than the fourth or the sixth?Mr. JARMAN -
No.Here is what Norman said before the WC.Mr. BALL. And you went up to the fifth floor?
Mr. NORMAN. Fifth floor.
Mr. BALL.
Why did you go to the fifth floor?Mr. NORMAN. Usually, one reason was you usually fill orders, I fill quite a few orders from the fifth floor and I figured I could get, you know,
a better view of the parade or motorcade or whatever it is from the fifth floor because I was more familiar with that floor.Based on this testimony it would seem Norman directed himself and Jarman to the fifth floor since he knew it had a good view of Elm Street from it. Then Williams joined them at some time, but Norman couldn?t say when.Mr. BALL. Did somebody join you there?
Mr. NORMAN. Bonnie Ray, I can't remember if he was there when we got there or he came later. I know he was with us a period of time later.
Mr. BALL. And then did he come down before the President's motorcade came by?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes; he was with us before the motorcade came by.
He is then shown Commission Exhibit (CE) 482 that depicts himself and Williams in it. Here is CE 482:http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0113b.htmMr. BALL. I show you some pictures here. This is Commission Exhibit No. 482. Do you recognize anybody in that window?
Mr. NORMAN. That is myself and that is Bonnie Ray Williams.
Mr. BALL. "Myself" is pointed to as to the window in the extreme southeast corner of the fifth floor, is that right?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And Bonnie Ray is in the window next to you?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
CE 487 will show you the floor plan for the fifth floor and the three men picked the area below the alleged Sniper?s Nest (SN) on the sixth floor to watch the motorcade from. CE 487:http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0115b.htmMr. BALL. Of the fifth floor rather, which is Commission's 487, and this is the southeast corner window. To what window did you and your two friends run?
Mr. NORMAN. This is the south. This is the window we were in. We came to this last, I believe it is the next to the last or the last window on this end here, right here.
So the scene is set for us. These men were supposedly below the same spot LHO was allegedly shooting JFK from on the sixth floor. Let?s see what they say about the shooting event.
This is what Jarman said about the event in his WC testimony.Mr. BALL - Were you still on your knees looking up?
Mr. JARMAN - Well, after the third shot was fired, I think I got up and I run over to Harold Norman and Bonnie Ray Williams, and told them, I said, I told them that it wasn't a backfire or anything, that somebody was shooting at the President.
Mr. BALL - And then did they say anything?
Mr. JARMAN - Hank said, Harold Norman, rather,
said that he thought the shots had came from above us, and I noticed that Bonnie Ray had a few debris in his head. It was sort of white stuff, or something, and I told him not to brush it out, but he did anyway.
Mr. BALL - He had some white what, like plaster?
Mr. JARMAN - Like some come off a brick or plaster or something.
Mr. BALL - Did Norman say anything else that you remember?
Mr. JARMAN -
He said that he was sure that the shot came from inside the building because he had been used to guns and all that, and he said it didn't sound like it was too far off anyway.
And so we ran down to the west side of the building.Notice that Jarman says that Norman said a shot came from above them initially, but then it was amended to INSIDE the building, but not from the sixth floor in particular. Also note, that he says they all ran down to the WEST end of the building and that would be the opposite from where the shots came from according to the WC. Why would they do this? Well, Norman tells us why.Mr. BALL.
Why did you run down to that window?Mr. NORMAN. Well,
it seems as though everyone else was running towards the railroad tracks, and we ran over there.
Curious to see why everybody was running that way for. I thought maybe?
Mr. BALL.
Did anybody say anything about going up to the sixth floor?Mr. NORMAN.
I don't remember anyone saying about going up to the sixth floor.Mr. BALL. And you went to what window?
Mr. NORMAN. To the west window.
He said they ran to the WEST window because it seemed as ?though everyone else was running towards the railroad tracks?? and that NO one said anything about a shot from the sixth floor! Why would they do this if Norman had said the shots came from above as was stated earlier? Would the movements of others matter at that point? Also, why would so many be moving to the railroad tracks IF the WC?s claims are correct? Williams would be more agreeable to the WC as he would attribute words to Norman that made it sound like the shots came from above them as claimed.Mr. BALL.
Did you notice where did you think the shots came from?Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, the first shot-I really did not pay any attention to it, because I did not know what was happening.
The second shot, it sounded like it was right in the building, the second and third shot. And it sounded-it even shook the building, the side we were on cement fell on my head.
Mr. BALL. You say cement fell on your head?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Cement, gravel, dirt, or something from the old building, because it shook the windows and everything. Harold was sitting next to me, and he said it came right from over our head. If you want to know my exact words, I could tell you.
Mr. BALL. Tell us.
Mr. WILLIAMS. My exact words were, "No bull :cop:." And we jumped up.
Mr. BALL. Norman said what?
Mr. WILLIAMS.
He said it came directly over our heads. "I can even hear the shell being ejected from the gun hitting the floor." But I did not hear the shell being ejected from the gun, probably because I wasn't paying attention. Mr. BALL.
Norman said he could hear it?Mr. WILLIAMS.
He said he could hear it. He was directly under the window that Oswald shot from.Mr. BALL. He was directly under.
He told you as he got up from the window that he could hear the shells ejected from the gun?Mr. WILLIAMS.
Yes; he did.This is magic to the ears of the WC, but we see that Norman and the others were more interested in what happened near the Grassy Knoll (GK) as he instead went on about what he saw the police doing near the railroad tracks. Why would he do this if he thought the shots came from directly over him?Mr. BALL. Here is a picture 489 taken last Friday when you were with me on that floor?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Is that the window you looked out of?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; I believe that is the one.
Mr. BALL.
What did you look at when you looked out that window?Mr. NORMAN.
We saw the policeman, and I guess they were detectives, they were searching the empty cars over there. I remember seeing some guy on top of them.Mr. BALL.
On top of the cars?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes. They were going through there.Mr. BALL.
You saw police officers searching cars over on the railroad tracks?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes.Here is CE 489:http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0116a.htmThey all seemed to be interested in what went on in the railroad yard, and not the sixth floor. Why would they be doing all this searching over there if the shots came from the TSBD as the WC claimed? He would be asked about the shells though and would confirm what Williams said.Mr. BALL. How many shots did you hear?
Mr. NORMAN. Three.
Mr. BALL.
Do you remember whether or not you said anything to the men then as to whether or not you heard anything from above you?Mr. NORMAN.
Only I think I remember saying that I thought I could hear the shell hulls and the ejection of the rifle. I didn't tell I think I hear anybody moving, you know.This is key as he did NOT hear anyone moving, and yet, Williams heard people moving on the fifth floor when he was on the sixth floor. How does one hear a shell hitting the floor, but NOT a whole man moving or running?Mr. BALL.
But you thought, do you remember you told the men then that you thought you heard the ejection of the rifle?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes, sir.Mr. BALL.
And shells on the floor?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes, sir.Mr. BALL. Falling?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
Again, how do you hear a shell falling and NOT a man moving?Mr. BALL.
Did anybody say anything as to where they thought the shots came from?Mr. NORMAN.
Well, I don't recall of either one of them saying they thought where it came from.Mr. BALL. But You did?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL.
And you said you thought it came from where?Mr. NORMAN.
Above where we were, above us.If this is so, why did they all run to the WEST side of the building to see what was going on?Mr. BALL. After that happened, what did you do?
Mr. NORMAN.
Well, we ran to the farthest window facing the expressway.
Something doesn?t add up here.Mr. BALL.
You ran down to the west side of the building?Mr. WILLIAMS.
Yes, sir.Something really doesn?t add up here. Mr. BALL -
Did Norman say anything about hearing cartridges or ejection or anything like that, do you remember?Mr. JARMAN -
That was after we got down to the west side of the building.Mr. BALL - After you got down where?
Mr. JARMAN - To the west side of the building.
I think we need a new calculator as it really doesn?t add up correctly. Jarman would say something else very interesting too about what he saw when he looked toward the railroad yard.Mr. BALL - I show you 489. Is that a picture of the west window?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL -
And what did you see when you looked out that window?Mr. JARMAN - When I looked out that window,
I saw the policemen and the secret agents, the FBI men, searching the boxcar yard and the passenger train and things like that.How in the world could the FBI be there so fast? Keep in mind this almost immediately after the shots were fired as he ran to the west window and looked out. This shows me that the FBI were there and ready to move, but how do you explain this UNLESS they knew the assassination was going to happen? The Secret Service (SS ) are responsible for the president?s protection so why would there be so many FBI agents around Dealey Plaza (DP)?
Back to the shells hitting the floor with Jarman.Mr. BALL -
What did you hear him say?Mr. JARMAN -
He said it was something sounded like cartridges hitting the floor, and he could hear the action of the rifle, I mean the bolt, as it were pulled back, or something like that.Mr. BALL -
Had you heard anything like that?Mr. JARMAN -
No, sir; I hadn'tMr. BALL -
Had you heard any person running upstairs?Mr. JARMAN -
No, sir.Mr. BALL -
Or any steps upstairs?Mr. JARMAN -
No, sir.Mr. BALL -
Any noise at all up there?Mr. JARMAN -
None.This shows us the WC had to rely on Norman alone as both Jarman and Williams said they heard nothing including a person moving around.Mr. BALL.
Did Norman say anything about the bolt?Mr. WILLIAMS.
Yes. He said he could hear the rifle, and it sounded like it was right above. He said he could hear the rifle being ejected, the shells hitting the floor.Mr. BALL.
But you could not hear this?Mr. WILLIAMS.
No; I could not hear it.Only Norman said he heard it. One could say, ?Well he was directly below the alleged SN?, but the point is the floor was old and creaky and you could see through it.Mr. BALL.
That was an old floor, wasn't it?Mr. WILLIAMS.
Yes; it was.Mr. BALL. Could you see light through the floor from the fifth to the sixth floor as you would look above your window?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, at the time, that day of November 22d, I did not notice that?. So therefore I would say that you could see light much more when the old floor was there.
Mr. BALL. When you were there the other day, you looked up through a crack in the ceiling of the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL.
Could you see the new floor?Mr. WILLIAMS.
You could. You could see daylight through.So any movement or noise should have been heard by all of them, and not just Norman IMO. Williams is asked why they did NOT go up to the sixth floor instead of running to the WEST window.Representative FORD.
Why didn't you go up to the sixth floor?Mr. WILLIAMS.
I really don't know. We just never did think about it. And after we had made this last stop, James Jarman said, "Maybe we better get the hell out of here." And so we just ran down to the fourth floor, and came on down.
We never did think about it, going up to the sixth floor. Maybe it was just because we were frightened.If you were frightened why not leave the building all together instead of running to the WEST window? Why would they think going down would be safer as the shooter had to go down too, didn?t they?Mr. BALL -
What did you men do after you looked out the window toward the railroad tracks from the west window?Mr. JARMAN -
Well, after Norman had made his statement that he had heard the cartridges hit the floor and this bolt action, I told him we'd better get the hell from up here.Mr. BALL -
Did anybody suggest you go up to the sixth floor?Mr. JARMAN -
No, Sir.Mr. BALL - And where did. you go then?
Mr. JARMAN - Down. We ran to the elevator first, but the elevator had gone down.
It was probably safer on the sixth floor than anywhere as the shooter would NOT stay there.Mr. BALL.
Did anybody say anything about going up to the sixth floor?Mr. NORMAN.
I don't remember anyone saying about going up to the sixth floor.They never considered going to the sixth floor at all and instead ran to the WEST side of the building. This says a lot whether you accept their excuse of being scared or not. Jarman said he did not hear any bolt working above him.Mr. McCLOY
You have had military experience, haven't you?Mr. JARMAN -
Yes, sir.Mr. McCLOY. And you can recognize rifle shots when you hear them?
Mr. JARMAN - Yes, sir.
Mr. McCLOY -
But you didn't hear, you didn't catch the sound of the bolt moving?Mr. JARMAN -
No, sir.Williams would say he did NOT hear anyone upstairs moving around.Mr. BALL.
Did you hear anything upstairs at all?Mr. WILLIAMS.
No, sir; I didn't hear anything.Mr. BALL.
Any footsteps?Mr. WILLIAMS.
No, sir. Probably the reason we didn't hear anything is because, you know, after the shots we were running, too, and that was making a louder noise.This testimony about running right after the shots is countered by what Jarman said.Mr. BALL -
How long was it before you ran down to the west end, from the time of the shots until you ran down to the west end, about how much time do you think it was?Mr. JARMAN -
After the third shot was fired I would say it was about a minute.If they waited a minute (or close to a minute) as Jarman said, how would that wash out any movement or running on the floor above them?
Finally, let?s finish with this comment by Norman.Mr. BALL. You did make a statement later to the Secret Service, didn't you?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL.
I have here a document 493, which is a copy of a statement made by this witness, which I now mark 493.
(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 493, for identification.)
CE 493: http://www.historymatters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/html/WH_Vol17_0117b.htmMr. BALL. The document that I have here shows the date 4th of December 1963.
Do you remember having made a statement to Mr. Carter, Special Agent of the Secret Service, on that day?Mr. NORMAN.
I can't remember the exact date but I believe I remember Mr. Carter.Mr. BALL. I want to call your attention to one part of the statement and I will ask you if you told him that:
"Just after the President passed by, I heard a shot and several seconds later I heard two more shots. I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor.
I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle. I also saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me."Did you make that statement to the Secret Service man?
Mr. NORMAN.
I don't remember making a statement that I knew the shots came from directly above us. I didn't make that statement. And I don't remember saying I heard several seconds later. I merely told him that I heard three shots because I didn't have any idea what time it was.
Mr. BALL. I see. Did you tell them that you heard the bolt action of the rifle?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And that you heard the expended cartridges fall to the floor?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes; I heard them making a sound.
He said he NEVER said he heard the shots coming from directly above so the claim of the WC saying LHO was directly above Norman firing three shots is NOT supported here. Also, how can one hear a bolt and falling shells, but NOT a person moving or running? Furthermore, it would seem the FBI once again added things that were NOT said by a witness.
He would also say he did NOT say he heard the bolt moving.Mr. BALL. What language did you use when you talked to the Secret Service man, do you know?
Did you say you heard the ejection or that you heard the bolt action? Which did you use?Mr. NORMAN.
I probably said the ejection.Mr. BALL.
That is what you think you said?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes.So he supposedly heard the ejection and the shell hitting the floor, but nothing else. But when the SS recreated it for him he heard the bolt working.Mr. BALL.
And a Secret Service man went upstairs with a rifle, didn't he?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes.Mr. BALL.
What did you hear on the fifth floor?Mr. NORMAN. Well, I heard the same sound, the sound similar. I heard three something that he dropped on the floor and then I could hear the rifle or whatever he had up there.
Mr. BALL. You could hear the rifle, the sound of an ejection?
Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL.
Did you hear the sound of the bolt going back and forth?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes, sir; I sure did.Mr. BALL.
You could hear it clearly, could you?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes, sir.This was after a new floor had been put in too! He would say he didn?t even know if the sixth floor window was open or not.Mr. BALL.
And the window, was the window on the sixth floor also open?Mr. NORMAN.
Yes, sir; they told me it was open. I didn't see it.The bottom line is this, how could he hear the ejection of the shells and them hitting the floor and nothing else? No bolt moving, no man kneeling and then moving and possibly running. It doesn?t seem possible when one considers the floor was old and creaky. Furthermore, with Norman's testimony the best you can say is SOMEONE might have been on the sixth floor firing a rifle as claimed, but you can't corroborate Norman's claims and you can't show it was LHO doing the firing.
Once again we see the evidence in the twenty-six volumes sink the WC?s conclusion as it does NOT point to LHO at all.
