If a bullet didn't go through JFK, then exactly how did Connally get hit?

[John Iacoletti]

I can't use Jerry Organ's lightbox frame but it illustrates it even better than Costella's!

Again, why not?

[John Mytton]

There was no sudden action on the part of Rosemary Willis until z202-206 (clip below) when she turns her head sharply to the right, back toward the TSBD.  She said that when she heard the shot she looked back and saw pigeons flying from the top of the TSBD.  Up to that point she was watching the President's limo. She does not completely stop until z199.

---------frames z202 to z206 at 200 ms/frame -------------------->

She does not completely stop until z199.

Why did she stop at all and then what are the chances that as soon as she stops less than half a second later she hears the first shot?

JohnM

[Andrew Mason]

In the following stabilized clip I've got the shot in the early 150's which is generally accepted as the first shot and as predicted several frames later we have the first of Zapruder's vertical flinches and virtually simultaneously with Zapruder's flinch Connally quickly turns to look over his right shoulder.

Of course, there is a great deal of evidence that the first shot was when the VP car had completed the turn and the VP security car had almost completed it and when the President was opposite the Thornton Freeway sign, and after z186 (Betzner) and enough after Croft (z161) for Croft to click the shutter again (the latter exposure being at the time of the first shot. Unfortunately, the camera malfunctioned).  There is also evidence (Mary Woodward and her group) that the President and Jackie turned in response to them shouting to them to look in their direction.  There is no evidence that conflicts with this timing.

So why not put "Hey Mr. President, over here!!" in place of the "Bang" and your frames will actually correspond to the evidence.

[Andrew Mason]

Why did she stop at all and then what are the chances that as soon as she stops less than half a second later she hears the first shot?

I am not sure she needed a reason to stop.  She may simply have seen no purpose in continuing to run.

She was obviously running to keep up with the president's car. Maybe she realized she could not keep up.  Also, she slows down as soon as she reaches the grass. Maybe that had something to do with it.  It seems rather odd that it would take her almost 3 seconds to stop running if a shot at z155 (that everyone thought was after the VP car had completed the turn) was the reason for stopping.

[John Mytton]

I am not sure she needed a reason to stop.  She may simply have seen no purpose in continuing to run.

She was obviously running to keep up with the president's car. Maybe she realized she could not keep up.  Also, she slows down as soon as she reaches the grass. Maybe that had something to do with it.  It seems rather odd that it would take her almost 3 seconds to stop running if a shot at z155 (that everyone thought was after the VP car had completed the turn) was the reason for stopping.

I am not sure she needed a reason to stop.

Maybe like she said, she heard a shot.

It seems rather odd that it would take her almost 3 seconds to stop running

Seriously, that's your argument? She was running at a fair gallop and was trying to process what she heard and you expect her to stop on a dime, you try it.

JohnM

[John Iacoletti]

Maybe like she said, she heard a shot.

Or she stopped because her dad called out.

Shaw trial testimony:

Q: After having taken this photograph, Mr. Willis, what did you do?

A: My two little daughters were running along down the hill paralleling the Presidential car there and I yelled to one of them, which is the first thing I did, and then I heard at least two more shots and then I started looking for them and looking down and hollering for them to come back to me and they came running back crying.

[John Mytton]

Or she stopped because her dad called out.

Shaw trial testimony:

Q: After having taken this photograph, Mr. Willis, what did you do?

A: My two little daughters were running along down the hill paralleling the Presidential car there and I yelled to one of them, which is the first thing I did, and then I heard at least two more shots and then I started looking for them and looking down and hollering for them to come back to me and they came running back crying.

If Willis was talking about Rosemary, she had completely stopped running by about Z198 so at what point after Willis took his photo did he yell at a running Rosemary?

JohnM

[Andrew Mason]

Maybe like she said, she heard a shot.

Seriously, that's your argument? She was running at a fair gallop and was trying to process what she heard and you expect her to stop on a dime, you try it.

No. My argument is that the evidence is consistent and overwhelming that the first shot was much later - just after the VP car had completed the turn (VP car occupants) when the VP security car was completing the turn or parallel to the TSBD (VP secuity car occupants), or a bit after z186 (photographers Robert Hughes and Hugh Betzner) or just before z202 (Phil Willis) or about when the President was opposite the Thornton Freeway sign (z200 - TE Moore,. Linda Willis).  There is no evidence that conflicts with that evidence.  So the basis for your conclusion, which conflicts with all that evidence, may not be reliable.

Rosemary Willis said, many years later, that she recalls stopping and turning her head in the direction of the sound and seeing pigeons fly from the top of the TSBD.  She did not say how fast she was running when she heard the shot. She did not say whether she had started to slow down before the first shot.  I doubt she would have remembered such fine details.  She just said she stopped and turned to look back to where the sound had come from.   She is running trying to keep up with the motorcade and then starts slowing down when she reaches the grass - but she does not stop until z199. She turns her head in the direction of the TSBD rather suddenly and noticeably from z202-206. A shot at z195 is consistent with that shot timing.  It may also be consistent with a shot at z155 and a slow reaction. The zfilm by itself does not provide conclusive evidence one way or the other.   

You have to look at all the evidence. And when you do, you have to conclude that the witnesses in the motorcade, along Elm St. were either not independent and, for some common reason said that the first shot was 3 seconds after when it really was and they simply forgot that JFK kept waving for 3 second before the next shot,  OR they were correct that the first shot was after z190.