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Author Topic: In 54 years has it ever been proven that CE399 is the bullet found at Parkland?  (Read 32805 times)

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Just as I thought.


Is it a problem for you that I don't have a position? Are you one of those who think that whatever they believe must be true [unless proven wrong - which for most LNs is impossible to begin with] and anybody who asks for evidence to show their position is correct is somehow a contrarian.

What's the problem? You like stating your case, you just don't like proving it?

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Offline Steve Howsley

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Is it a problem for you that I don't have a position? Are you one of those who think that whatever they believe must be true [unless proven wrong - which for most LNs is impossible to begin with] and anybody who asks for evidence to show their position is correct is somehow a contrarian.

What's the problem? You like stating your case, you just don't like proving it?

This is simply a waste of time. When you have something to contribute put it on the table.

Until then you have nothing.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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This is simply a waste of time. When you have something to contribute put it on the table.

Until then you have nothing.


Pretty pathetic reply which only shows you just don't get it.

Let me spell it out for you: you don't get to be right until somebody proves you wrong. You need to prove your case and your are failing big time!

I don't need to prove anything and I actually did contribute something. I showed that no LN is even remotely able to provide proof that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital. The sound of silence is enough to prove the fact!

When you claim that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was found at Parkland Hospital, you need to prove it and you can't. It's as simple as that.... that's why you play these stupid "shifting the burden of proof" games.

Come back any time when you have something to back up your belief.....

For the time being, I'll just consider you to be out of your league

« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 08:44:50 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Offline Bill Brown

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The single bullet that passed through both Kennedy and Connally and ended up in Connally's thigh must, at some point, be found somewhere.  Even if this bullet was NOT CE-399, it is a must that this bullet would be found by someone somewhere.  No other bullet has ever been found (in Connally's thigh or elsewhere).  Even if you do not believe in the single bullet theory, the fact remains that a bullet lodged itself in Connally's left thigh.

Apart from the flawed assumption that there ever was such a thing as a single bullet, the argument that a bullet would have to be found by someone somewhere doesn't hold water for several reasons;

1. There was a shot that missed. That bullet was never found proving that there is no certainty that a bullet would ever be found.
2. Allegedly bullet fragments were found in the limo. There is no reason to assume that these could not have come from a bullet that hit Kennedy or Connally or both.
3. If the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is in fact not the bullet found by Tomlinson at Parkland, it means there was evidence tampering involved. In such a case it would just as easy to make a bullet disappear as it is to make one appear.

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Apart from the flawed assumption that there ever was such a thing as a single bullet,

This is simply erroneous.  I did include the point that even if one does not believe in the single bullet theory, the fact remains that a bullet entered Connally's left thigh.

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the argument that a bullet would have to be found by someone somewhere doesn't hold water for several reasons;

1. There was a shot that missed. That bullet was never found proving that there is no certainty that a bullet would ever be found.

False premise.  That a bullet fired from the missed shot was never found certainly does NOT prove that there is no certainty that the bullet which hit Connally's left thigh would ever be found.

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2. Allegedly bullet fragments were found in the limo. There is no reason to assume that these could not have come from a bullet that hit Kennedy or Connally or both.

Neutron activation analysis showed that fragments removed from Kennedy's brain matched the two larger fragments found inside the limo.

Through neutron activation analysis, all of the bullet fragments removed from the bodies of both Kennedy and Connally were traced to two bullets, no more, no less.  NAA showed that all of the fragments taken from the bodies of Kennedy and Connally came from either CE-399 or from the bullet which the two larger fragments (found inside the limo) came from.  These two larger fragments were found, by use of NAA, to have come from the same bullet.

It was proved (by the FBI) that CE-399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.  It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle.

However, I will add that all of this is dependent on how much validity one chooses to give the NAA study of CE-399 and all relevant fragments.

But, choosing to dismiss the NAA study does not automatically infer that the fragments found inside the limo did not come from the same bullet which left fragments in Kennedy's brain (that were removed at autopsy).

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3. If the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is in fact not the bullet found by Tomlinson at Parkland, it means there was evidence tampering involved. In such a case it would just as easy to make a bullet disappear as it is to make one appear.

Agreed.

Now the million dollar question.  I really don't wish to engage in polemics, but you haven't shown anything which suggests that someone made a bullet appear, i.e. CE-399 isn't genuine.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 08:09:12 AM by Bill Brown »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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This is simply erroneous.  I did include the point that even if one does not believe in the single bullet theory, the fact remains that a bullet lodged inside Connally's left thigh.

False premise.  That a bullet fired from the missed shot was never found certainly does NOT prove that there is no certainty that the bullet which hit Connally's left thigh would ever be found.

Neutron activation analysis showed that fragments removed from Kennedy's brain matched the two larger fragments found inside the limo.

Through neutron activation analysis, all of the bullet fragments removed from the bodies of both Kennedy and Connally were traced to two bullets, no more, no less.  NAA showed that all of the fragments taken from the bodies of Kennedy and Connally came from either CE-399 or from the bullet which the two larger fragments (found inside the limo) came from.  These two larger fragments were found, by use of NAA, to have come from the same bullet.

It was proved (by the FBI) that CE-399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.  It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle.

However, I will add that all of this is dependent on how much validity one chooses to give the NAA study of CE-399 and all relevant fragments.

But, choosing to dismiss the NAA study does not automatically infer that the fragments found inside the limo did not come from the same bullet which left fragments in Kennedy's brain (that were removed at autopsy).

Agreed.

Now the million dollar question.  I really don't wish to engage in polemics, but you haven't shown anything which suggests that someone made a bullet appear, i.e. CE-399 isn't genuine.

It was proved (by the FBI) that CE-399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.  It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle.

The FBI proving that CE399 was fired from C2766 doesn't prove the bullet was fired from the TSBD on 11/22/63 nor does it prove CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital.

As far as the fragments go, I seem to remember that the FBI expert (can't recall his name at the moment) didn't get any futher than lining up the markings in his mind.

Btw what makes you so sure the fragments were found in the limo?

Neutron activation analysis showed that fragments removed from Kennedy's brain matched the two larger fragments found inside the limo.


Please post (or link to) the report for this analysis.

However, I will add that all of this is dependent on how much validity one chooses to give the NAA study of CE-399 and all relevant fragments.

But, choosing to dismiss the NAA study does not automatically infer that the fragments found inside the limo did not come from the same bullet which left fragments in Kennedy's brain (that were removed at autopsy).


I am not an expert in this field but I would imagine that most bullets from the same batch would provide similar results. In other words any fragments from the same batch would match the fragments left in Kennedy's brain. Btw, Paul O'Connor - who was responsible for removing the brain at the autopsy said there was no brain left to be removed. How does one explain this?

Now the million dollar question.  I really don't wish to engage in polemics, but you haven't shown anything which suggests that someone made a bullet appear, i.e. CE-399 isn't genuine.

Why do I need to prove a negative? Since when do you get to assume that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is the one Tomlinson found at Parkland? I have already explained why I believe there are serious problems with CE399 and so far I have not seen a shred of evidence that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is the same one Tomlinson found.



« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 08:50:13 AM by Martin Weidmann »

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Offline Jon Banks

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Based on what we know so far:

- CE 399 may not have been found at Parkland Hospital

- The FBI lied or misled on CE 399 in order to avoid addressing the Chain of Custody problem

Offline Walt Cakebread

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It was proved (by the FBI) that CE-399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.  It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle.

The FBI proving that CE399 was fired from C2766 doesn't prove the bullet was fired from the TSBD on 11/22/63 nor does it prove CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital.

As far as the fragments go, I seem to remember that the FBI expert (can't recall his name at the moment) didn't get any futher than lining up the markings in his mind.

Btw what makes you so sure the fragments were found in the limo?

Neutron activation analysis showed that fragments removed from Kennedy's brain matched the two larger fragments found inside the limo.


Please post (or link to) the report for this analysis.

However, I will add that all of this is dependent on how much validity one chooses to give the NAA study of CE-399 and all relevant fragments.

But, choosing to dismiss the NAA study does not automatically infer that the fragments found inside the limo did not come from the same bullet which left fragments in Kennedy's brain (that were removed at autopsy).


I am not an expert in this field but I would imagine that most bullets from the same batch would provide similar results. In other words any fragments from the same batch would match the fragments left in Kennedy's brain. Btw, Paul O'Connor - who was responsible for removing the brain at the autopsy said there was no brain left to be removed. How does one explain this?

Now the million dollar question.  I really don't wish to engage in polemics, but you haven't shown anything which suggests that someone made a bullet appear, i.e. CE-399 isn't genuine.

Why do I need to prove a negative? Since when do you get to assume that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is the one Tomlinson found at Parkland? I have already explained why I believe there are serious problems with CE399 and so far I have not seen a shred of evidence that the bullet now in evidence as CE399 is the same one Tomlinson found.


It was proved (by the FBI) that CE-399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.  It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle.

The FBI proving that CE399 was fired from C2766 doesn't prove the bullet was fired from the TSBD on 11/22/63 nor does it prove CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital.

Martins factual and accurate response ( green) to to Billy Bob Brown's irrational statement ( red) would be cause to reconsider your position if you thought as Billy Bob does.   And your position should be an  embarrassment if you were a sincere and honest person.

It was proved (by the FBI) that CE-399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.  It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle.


It was proved (by the FBI) that CE-399 was fired from Oswald's rifle.


It has never been established that Lee Oswald owned the carcano with the serial number c2766

It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle

Pure unadulterated BS!!.....  Even Hoover himself told LBJ that the fragments were useless as evidence that they fired from any particular gun.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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  It was also proved (by the FBI) that that the two larger fragments found inside the limo were fragments from a bullet fired from Oswald's rifle
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Pure unadulterated BS!!.....  Even Hoover himself told LBJ that the fragments were useless as evidence that they fired from any particular gun.
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adulterated=render (something) poorer in quality by adding another substance, typically an inferior one.
So yes Walt...that BS is adulterated ;)
 

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