Chaney's motorcycle in Zapruder frame Z-242

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, the 4th window from the left is visible behind the lamppost's globe. The obelisk is only wide enough to block one column of windows to the left of the entrance so it has to be the 4th column behind the lamp post. The brick outcrop next to the 4th window gives us Chaney and the pillar at the entrance give us JFK.

Ah....Therein lies the problem......Perhaps we can sort this out ....I believe that you're correct the the fourth set of windows is behind the lamppost....  BUT the third set of windows is NOT  "BLOCKED OUT" by the concrete pylon.  The third set of windows on the second floor, is visible in the background above the pylon. And the center divider ( mullion) in that third set of windows is an excellent anchor point for a line from the TSBD, through the pylon, through the Lincoln hood ornament to the camera.  Chaney is seen to the left ( West) of that line.

I'm sure that the TSBD window that is visible above the concrete pylon is the THIRD set of windows...

Using the plat that was created by the Surveyor Robert West  .......And working very carefully to be as precise as possible,  We can locate the middle of the third set of windows and draw a line through the pylon and on across Elm street .    James Algens was at the Elm street curb at the southern end of the line drawn.   

Incidentally.... I wouldn't bet the farm that the traffic divider line is located where someone says it is.......You may recall that the back wound was conveniently moved up to JFK's neck......  so moving a traffic divider line is no problem....

[Royell Storing]

How do you know where the people on the curb were relative to the Queen Mary?

Notice the woman whose face appears above the American flag.....Wouldn't you agree that she's looking a little to her right and looking directly at JFK ?   A line from that woman to JFK would pass behind Chaney.....   If Chaney were further back and near the RF fender of the QM the line would pass in front of him.   



You'll notice that the shadows of Hargis and Martin are cast slightly to the rear of a right angle (90 degrees)  Their shadows fall at about 10 degrees to the rear of 90 degrees IOW their shadows fall at about 100 degrees.  The same would be true for Chaney......  So IF  Chaney's Shadow fell slightly BEHIND his right side it would not be visible on the surface of Elm street if he was near the fender of the QM.

     This Altgens photo certainly did Not distort the position of the Hard Hat Guy standing next to the light pole. He held that same general position before, during & immediately following the assassination. Using the Hard Hat Guy as a Landmark is useful in this discussion.

[Walt Cakebread]

     This Altgens photo certainly did Not distort the position of the Hard Hat Guy standing next to the light pole. He held that same general position before, during & immediately following the assassination. Using the Hard Hat Guy as a Landmark is useful in this discussion.

Royell....I'm looking for feedback on my post ..... It's possible to accurately place the Lincoln on Elm street by using Robert West's plat of Dealy Plaza and the Altgens photo..... And it's possible to place Chaney alongside the Lincoln.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, yes the line in the diagram is about twice that of the line in Altgens 6. But I see others problems that make the comparison invalid. First, Altgens was not directly in front of the limo and that decreases the perceived angle considerably. It is much less than you would see from directly in front of the limo
Second, anytime you take an overhead view and compare it to a photo taken at ground level the angles change. The angle you see from overhead will always be less than the angle you see from any other view.  As an example taken from the backyard photos Oswalds shadow appears about 2 1/2 times greater than it would be from above because Marina was about 10 to 12 feet away and at about 4 feet high. I have duplicated this perspective and the large difference in perceived angles make comparison impossible unless you take the perspective into account. 
 Third, the comparison can show you the line of sight from Altgens but it does not tell you where along that line that Chaney is positioned. You could move him forward a bit in the overhead diagram while keeping him on that line of sight and end up with Chaney next to the limo.
 The closest we can come to locating Chaney's position is to do a line of sight from above. Using the West map I found Chaney could not be next to JFK because the line of sight puts him within  about one foot of the lime which is too close. His bike would be be in contact with the limo.
 One other note for anyone doing an LOS for the limo or Chaney in Altgens 6. The West map shows the lane marker next to the limo's left front tire in the wrong location. An old overhead photo I found shows that the lane marker was mis aligned with the marker next to it by about 6 feet! So if you used that lane marker to get an LOS it will place Altgens 4 feet closer to the curb than the West map puts him. His location in the West map is correct but tat lane marker is not.

 Altgens was not directly in front of the limo and that decreases the perceived angle considerably.

It's NOT a perceived angle.....The angle is a MEASURED angle which uses the shadow of the side of the Lincoln as base.....

[John Mytton]

Incidentally.... I wouldn't bet the farm that the traffic divider line is located where someone says it is.......You may recall that the back wound was conveniently moved up to JFK's neck......  so moving a traffic divider line is no problem....

For a start the WC initial draft said that the wound was slightly above the shoulder....



And Ford simply altered the language to more accurately reflect the actual Autopsy report.



JohnM

[Royell Storing]

Royell....I'm looking for feedback on my post ..... It's possible to accurately place the Lincoln on Elm street by using Robert West's plat of Dealy Plaza and the Altgens photo..... And it's possible to place Chaney alongside the Lincoln.

     Without fail, every single time a LN gets in a pickle regarding an assignation image they go into their "perspective" dance.  They want everyone to Rely on JFK assassination images until these same images disprove them. Then, what you see is Not what you get. The use of this hokey pokey is employed to explain the variance in the physical position of the Chism family. Willis/Black Dog Man pic displays the Chism Family standing almost underneath the Stemmons sign & close to rubbing elbows with the Umbrella Man. This position contradicts the Bronson images showing the Chism's standing well East of the Stemmons Sign down on the street.

[Nicholas Turner]

     Without fail, every single time a LN gets in a pickle regarding an assignation image they go into their "perspective" dance.  They want everyone to Rely on JFK assassination images until these same images disprove them. Then, what you see is Not what you get. The use of this hokey pokey is employed to explain the variance in the physical position of the Chism family. Willis/Black Dog Man pic displays the Chism Family standing almost underneath the Stemmons sign & close to rubbing elbows with the Umbrella Man. This position contradicts the Bronson images showing the Chism's standing well East of the Stemmons Sign down on the street.

Don't you believe perspective should be taken into account?

[Royell Storing]

Don't you believe perspective should be taken into account?

      Sure. But when you get into moving numerous people around by numerous Feet and also in various directions on the compass = Nope. Plus, these same people then want to then swear there is absolutely No distortion what-so-ever at any point on the Z Film which they absolutely swear by. They can Not have it Every which way but loose.