At which Zframe was JFK clear of the oak tree from the SN?

[Andrew Mason]

This is confusing.  I'm showing that the tree DID block the 6th floor view, then it did not. And where it does not block is actually when the first shot was taken, around Z225. As I stated above, if there's a conspiracy and they want their patsy to take the fall for it, they certainly would tell the real shooters to not start firing until the car clears the oak tree obstruction.

It is confusing only if you didn't read my post. If you read it, you will understand why I am saying that you are wrong: JFK was clear of the oak tree by z195. In other words, your assertion that the tree DID block the 6th floor view until z225 is not correct. You seem to be just making that up.

Read the Bill Newman one.  He was mere feet from the limo.[/b]

What is crazy about it?  The use of the term "jumped up"? "standing up"?   No one asked him what he meant by those terms so we really don't know what he was trying to say. I am not that familiar with Texas expressions, but I think I can smell what you're stepping in....

[Walt Cakebread]

First of all, they are hardly 'identical'. Your two photos show a markedly different facial expression. He is not smiing in z224 (but was smiing z193, less than 2 seconds earlier). In your photos the hands look much more natural.  Second, there is no evidence that JFK was shot before your photos were taken whereas there is not only evidence that there was a shot about a second or two before z225 but also evidence that he reacted to it by bringing his hands to his chest/neck and assuming a blank stare, just as we see in z224.
 The whole point of this thread was to show that the oak tree was NOT blocking the view from the SN. If you disagree then tell us what is wrong with my analysis (first post).
 Too many? Give us some examples. There are a few examples where one person said something that was different but invariably these oddball accounts are never corroborated by anyone else.

there is no evidence that JFK was shot before your photos were taken whereas there is not only evidence that there was a shot about a second or two before z225

Two seconds prior to Z 225 =  Z 189.....   The tree obstructed the view  between the window and JFK at Z 189.....

[Andrew Mason]

there is no evidence that JFK was shot before your photos were taken whereas there is not only evidence that there was a shot about a second or two before z225

Two seconds prior to Z 225 =  Z 189.....   The tree obstructed the view  between the window and JFK at Z 189.....

So what about z195? I have shown that JFK was visible from the SN clear of the oak tree at z195. That is 30 frames or 1.65 seconds before z225. There is evidence that the first shot was just before z202 (Phil Wilis) and a lot of evidence that it was after z190 (motorcade witnesses, Betzner, others along Elm). Rosemary Willis appears to react to something at z202 to 205 turning rapidly towrd the TSBD. She said she looked back when she heard the first shot. Jack Ready said he turned around immediately upon hearing the first shot. He begins turning at z199 when he releases his right hand from the right front handhold on the SSsecurity car.

[Walt Cakebread]

So what about z195? I have shown that JFK was visible from the SN clear of the oak tree at z195. That is 30 frames or 1.65 seconds before z225. There is evidence that the first shot was just before z202 (Phil Wilis) and a lot of evidence that it was after z190 (motorcade witnesses, Betzner, others along Elm). Rosemary Willis appears to react to something at z202 to 205 turning rapidly towrd the TSBD. She said she looked back when she heard the first shot. Jack Ready said he turned around immediately upon hearing the first shot. He begins turning at z199 when he releases his right hand from the right front handhold on the SSsecurity car.

There is evidence that the first shot was just before z202 (Phil Wilis) and a lot of evidence that it was after z190

Have you seen page 102 WR?  The Lincoln would have just emerged from behind the tree at Frame 210...  Nobody could have aimed a rifle at JFK from that SE corner window prior to Z 210.....   And that ignores the FACT that it requires several seconds to acquire the MOVING target and squeeze the trigger..... A rifle cannot be fired the very instant the target appears.... Do you understand? 

[Andrew Mason]

There is evidence that the first shot was just before z202 (Phil Wilis) and a lot of evidence that it was after z190

Have you seen page 102 WR?  The Lincoln would have just emerged from behind the tree at Frame 210...  Nobody could have aimed a rifle at JFK from that SE corner window prior to Z 210.....   And that ignores the FACT that it requires several seconds to acquire the MOVING target and squeeze the trigger..... A rifle cannot be fired the very instant the target appears.... Do you understand?

You obviously haven't read the first post in this thread. The whole point of this thread is to show that the WC was wrong and, more important, why it was wrong. I have demonstrated that JFK was clear of obstruction from the SN At z195. And JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree. If you disagree, read it and tell me where I have gone wrong. And tell me why the Secret Service film is not a better recreation than the FBI's.

[Walt Cakebread]

You obviously haven't read the first post in this thread. The whole point of this thread is to show that the WC was wrong and, more important, why it was wrong. I have demonstrated that JFK was clear of obstruction from the SN At z195. And JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree. If you disagree, read it and tell me where I have gone wrong. And tell me why the Secret Service film is not a better recreation than the FBI's.

I have demonstrated that JFK was clear of obstruction from the SN At z195. And JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree. If you disagree,


OF course I disagree.... You clearly are not familiar with rifles or hunting.....JFK could NOT have been tracked through the scope of that rifle as the Lincoln traveled behind the foliage of the tree.  LBJ's cover up committee shows a photo on page 102 of the Book of Lies that allegedly depicts the view at frame 210 of the Z film . That photo shows that JFK in the car has just emerged from behind the tree...it would have taken several seconds for an EXPERT rifle man to acquire the target and squeeze the trigger.    AND even an EXPERT rifleman could not have hit JFK because the scope was mounted out of alignment.   

You're right ...The Cover up committee was "wrong" (as in deliberately wrong)  but you have disqualified your argument by making dumb statements like ..."JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree."

[Andrew Mason]

I have demonstrated that JFK was clear of obstruction from the SN At z195. And JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree. If you disagree,


OF course I disagree.... You clearly are not familiar with rifles or hunting.....JFK could NOT have been tracked through the scope of that rifle as the Lincoln traveled behind the foliage of the tree.  LBJ's cover up committee shows a photo on page 102 of the Book of Lies that allegedly depicts the view at frame 210 of the Z film . That photo shows that JFK in the car has just emerged from behind the tree...it would have taken several seconds for an EXPERT rifle man to acquire the target and squeeze the trigger.    AND even an EXPERT rifleman could not have hit JFK because the scope was mounted out of alignment.   

You're right ...The Cover up committee was "wrong" (as in deliberately wrong)  but you have disqualified your argument by making dumb statements like ..."JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree."

Walter, you are demonstrating again that you have not read or, in any event, understood, the first post in this thread.  Read it and view the Secret Service film that I have provided for you.  Watch from 10:20 as the car goes under the oak tree.  This is the oak tree as seen from the SN a few days after the assassination so that is what was actually seen.  The FBI did their recreation in May 1964 when the tree was in full foliage and all sorts of new growth.  At the time of the assassination "JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree".   Watch the film yourself. You can see the car and occupants all the time it passes under that two outer branches.  Otherwise the car is completely clear.  Don't take my word for it.  See for yourself:



Anyone who knew how to shoot would be able to track JFK under that tree.

[Walt Cakebread]

Walter, you are demonstrating again that you have not read or, in any event, understood, the first post in this thread.  Read it and view the Secret Service film that I have provided for you.  Watch from 10:20 as the car goes under the oak tree.  This is the oak tree as seen from the SN a few days after the assassination so that is what was actually seen.  The FBI did their recreation in May 1964 when the tree was in full foliage and all sorts of new growth.  At the time of the assassination "JFK was easily trackablefrom the SN as he passed under the tree".   Watch the film yourself. You can see the car and occupants all the time it passes under that two outer branches.  Otherwise the car is completely clear.  Don't take my word for it.  See for yourself:



Anyone who knew how to shoot would be able to track JFK under that tree.

Andrew, You're being a sucker....  The photo WAS NOT taken from the TSBD window...Get your head out and LOOK at the angles in the photo....That photo was taken from the Dal Tex Building.    That why I used the word "Allegedly" when directing you to the photo on page 102 of The Book of Lies  ..... LBJ's liars presented the photo as having been taken from the TSBD but it clearly was taken from a location further south than the SE corner window of the TSBD....

I'm outta here Andrew.....  I clearly can't help you.....