WC Member's Views Confirmed By HSCA

[Walt Cakebread]

Where did the fragment come from? Explain how a bullet that has a metal jacket can fragment.

a fragment did strike the windshield frame and the sun visor above Greer.

Where did the fragment come from? Explain how a bullet that has a metal jacket can fragment.

The dent in the chrome molding does NOT appear to have been made by a fragment....  I've seen a few bullet strikes and that dent appears to have been made by a large, heavy, low velocity, soft lead, projectile.....My guess would be; that the dent was created by a 45 caliber bullet....  The 45 ACP travels at subsonic velocity and has very poor penetrating ability....When it strikes a man or animal it packs a hell of a wallop ( like a baseball bat ) but usually doesn't penetrate very deeply.

And Rob seems to be on the right track....  A FMJ bullet fired from a carcano traveling at about 2000 fps, probably would have penetrated that chrome molding.  ( I have one of those molding from a Lincoln convertible and it is not heavy sheet metal)
I seriously doubt that an FMJ carcano bullet would have fragmented on impact with that sheet metal molding.

[John Iacoletti]

No question that JFK is reacting when he emerges from behind the sign. Unfortunately it doesn't tell us when he starts reacting. It does not tell us that he is not reacting before he emerges.

It also tells us nothing about Chapman?s alleged ?twofer?.

[Andrew Mason]

"Again, a bullet at z272 is after z250."

So is a bullet at Z251 and Z313 and everything in between. This is bar none the most ridiculous explanation that could have been offered. You are just trying to cover all the options because even you realize the implausibility of this theory.

All in all this appears to be the same useless discussion that it always is. Start with a goofy theory about a shot at Z270 and now an added "after" Z250 shot coupled with an inability to support either shot. Then add in the usual tortured witness analysis and use the HSCA report to support the analysis. Ignore the fact that the people who wrote the HSCA report stated it was wrong and why.

It takes two to make a useless discussion.  In any event, your theory that the overwhelming evidence of three shots and a 1......2...3 shot pattern being wrong is no less goofy than my "theory" that the evidence is not wrong.

The HSCA did a lot of useful things. But their comment about the supposed general unreliability of witnesses was a poor attempt to justify why none of the witnesses heard a phantom 4th shot that they concluded was fired.  In fact, there was no such shot. 

You have a long way to go to show that the witnesses, all 132 of them, thought they heard a phantom 3rd shot that did not exist.  BTW, what is your explanation as to how the "three shot" witness tampering got started? Why did so many witnesses go along with it?

[Andrew Mason]

a fragment did strike the windshield frame and the sun visor above Greer.

Where did the fragment come from? Explain how a bullet that has a metal jacket can fragment.

Google "fragmentation metal jacketed bullet". Are you asking me how a jacketed bullet can be fired at something hard and fragment?  It is a matter of what the bullet is made of, what the target is made of and how fast it is going.  The jacket on Oswald's ammunition was copper and inside it was lead.  Neither are particularly strong metals.   Do you have any idea of the force that such a bullet moving at 2000 fps experiences in striking bone? 

The dent in the chrome molding does NOT appear to have been made by a fragment....  I've seen a few bullet strikes and that dent appears to have been made by a large, heavy, low velocity, soft lead, projectile.....My guess would be; that the dent was created by a 45 caliber bullet....  The 45 ACP travels at subsonic velocity and has very poor penetrating ability....When it strikes a man or animal it packs a hell of a wallop ( like a baseball bat ) but usually doesn't penetrate very deeply.

Ballistic experts who understand the physics of bullets don't have to guess. As far as I can tell, no ballistic expert has opined that the dent was created by .45 caliber bullet. They have all said that it is consistent with having been made by a fragment from one of the MC bullets.

And Rob seems to be on the right track....  A FMJ bullet fired from a carcano traveling at about 2000 fps, probably would have penetrated that chrome molding.  ( I have one of those molding from a Lincoln convertible and it is not heavy sheet metal)
I seriously doubt that an FMJ carcano bullet would have fragmented on impact with that sheet metal molding.

Your doubt, serious as I am sure it is, is not evidence.

[Walt Cakebread]

Google "fragmentation metal jacketed bullet". Are you asking me how a jacketed bullet can be fired at something hard and fragment?  It is a matter of what the bullet is made of, what the target is made of and how fast it is going.  The jacket on Oswald's ammunition was copper and inside it was lead.  Neither are particularly strong metals.   Do you have any idea of the force that such a bullet moving at 2000 fps experiences in striking bone? 
Ballistic experts who understand the physics of bullets don't have to guess. As far as I can tell, no ballistic expert has opined that the dent was created by .45 caliber bullet. They have all said that it is consistent with having been made by a fragment from one of the MC bullets.
Your doubt, serious as I am sure it is, is not evidence.

Andrew... you're FOS....

[Andrew Mason]

Andrew... you're FOS....

Thank-you.   But you really ought to deal with the evidence.  While I certainly appreciate your recognition of the healthy state of my digestive system, one cannot rely on one's gut to determine what happened. 

[Steve Howsley]

Andrew... you're FOS....

Why are you so angry all of the time? Try to calm down before you post.

[Walt Cakebread]

Why are you so angry all of the time? Try to calm down before you post.

Angry??...  I love a good fight,   It makes me happy, not angry....