JFK - A simple solution

[Oscar Navarro]

Question: What is the evidence that you've seen that the CIA worked with or was involved with Alpha 66 and its raids on Cuba?

I've seen no evidence other than the claims made by Veciana that a man named Maurice Bishop who gave his group help was CIA officer David Atlee Phillips. This after he said for more than 30 years that Bishop was not Phillips.

The documents released so far show several attempts by Veciana to get help from the CIA but that he was turned down.

The scuttlebutt in the South Florida Cuban community for years has been that the CIA helped finance various Cuban groups in the early 60's. On a personal note my wife's uncle used to run guns to Cuba in the early 60's and he was affiliated with Alpha 66. Although he was the quiet type his wife was not. After his death we became very close and she would tell me about how much she wanted her husband to settle down, that there were children that needed him as she feared for his safety. Other people that I know of personally trained for another invasion of Cuba in Louisiana, North Carolina and possibly other states. Since there was an ongoing attempt by the CIA to topple Fidel it's not hard to figure out that these training camps and some of the funding for Cuban action groups were based in South Florida, and the largest CIA base in the US was here in South Florida. 

[Steve M. Galbraith]

The scuttlebutt in the South Florida Cuban community for years has been that the CIA helped finance various Cuban groups in the early 60's. On a personal note my wife's uncle used to run guns to Cuba in the early 60's and he was affiliated with Alpha 66. Although he was the quiet type his wife was not. After his death we became very close and she would tell me about how much she wanted her husband to settle down, that there were children that needed him as she feared for his safety. Other people that I know of personally trained for another invasion of Cuba in Louisiana, North Carolina and possibly other states. Since there was an ongoing attempt by the CIA to topple Fidel it's not hard to figure out that these training camps and some of the funding for Cuban action groups were based in South Florida, and the largest CIA base in the US was here in South Florida.

Yes, the CIA did fund/direct and control (or try to) many of these groups. The evidence for that is overwhelming. After the missile crisis, however, they shut down many of these operations in an attempt to control them. Something they had difficulty doing.

But I'm asking specifically about Alpha 66. Tracy Parnell has written extensively on Alpha 66 and the political head of the group Antonio Veciana.

Here's the link to his research:  http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-maurice-bishop-story.html

There's very little evidence that I am aware of - and Tracy too - that Alpha 66 was funded/directed by the CIA. Veciana says that a mysterious person named Maurice Bishop gave him and the group help and that, after denying it for 30 years, Bishop was CIA officer David Atlee Phillips. But Veciana also said that the CIA through Bishop/Phillips never gave Alpha 66 any funds at all. They did, he alleged, provided material for some of their operations but there is no evidence - other than his claims - to this (that I've seen). In fact Tracy cites several CIA documents that show that Veciana went to representatives of the agency for help and was turned down.

So, I think the issue of the CIA's support for Alpha 66 is open for discussion.

[Oscar Navarro]

Paine told several versions of how she acquired the letter that Lee wrote to the "Russian Embassy"  ( although the letter was addressed to the Russian Embassy, Lee knew that the FBI was reading all of the mail addressed to the embassy.   I believe the information in the letter was primarily for the FBI's intelligence files. )  The letter is NOT written in Cyrillic, but Ruth Pain said he used her cyrillic typewrier.

Some accounts say that she simply purloined the hand written rough draft of the letter, which she gave Hosty, while other accounts say she copied a typewritten letter ( written in Russian on her Cyrillic typewriter  ) 

Se page 311 WR or vol XVI CE103 for both the typed and hand written versions of the letter.

You said she was a paid informer. That is very different to an ordinary citizen passing on information that the FBI might find useful.

And I'm not retreating from my idea that Ruth Pain was paid by Hoover to keep tabs on the Oswald's and the FBI provided "reimbursement" for services rendered.....

Paine told several versions of how she acquired the letter that Lee wrote to the "Russian Embassy"  ( although the letter was addressed to the Russian Embassy, Lee knew that the FBI was reading all of the mail addressed to the embassy.   I believe the information in the letter was primarily for the FBI's intelligence files. )  The letter is NOT written in Cyrillic, but Ruth Pain said he used her cyrillic typewrier.


There's only one version I'm familiar with and that's the one she gave to the WC. How would Oswald know his letter would be intercepted by the FBI? That's just wild speculation. Ruth Paine did not say he used her Cyrillic typewriter. More wild 

Some accounts say that she simply purloined the hand written rough draft of the letter, which she gave Hosty, while other accounts say she copied a typewritten letter ( written in Russian on her Cyrillic typewriter  )


What may those accounts be? And don't tell me to look for them. You make the claims and I think it's your responsibility to cite the source since it's not commonly known material.

And I'm not retreating from my idea that Ruth Pain was paid by Hoover to keep tabs on the Oswald's and the FBI provided "reimbursement" for services rendered.....


You can believe whatever it is you want to believe but it would help your credibility if a valid source was provided.

[Walt Cakebread]

The scuttlebutt in the South Florida Cuban community for years has been that the CIA helped finance various Cuban groups in the early 60's. On a personal note my wife's uncle used to run guns to Cuba in the early 60's and he was affiliated with Alpha 66. Although he was the quiet type his wife was not. After his death we became very close and she would tell me about how much she wanted her husband to settle down, that there were children that needed him as she feared for his safety. Other people that I know of personally trained for another invasion of Cuba in Louisiana, North Carolina and possibly other states. Since there was an ongoing attempt by the CIA to topple Fidel it's not hard to figure out that these training camps and some of the funding for Cuban action groups were based in South Florida, and the largest CIA base in the US was here in South Florida.

None of this is news to me Mr Navarro....Most of what you've posted is common knowledge and history.

The most important bit of info that you posted is:  "Other people that I know of personally trained for another invasion of Cuba in Louisiana,"

This is at the very core of the murder of JFK....   JFK had been "snake bit" by the BOP fiasco and he ordered that all such clandestine training for another attack on Cuba to be curtailed.  And he was taking action to stop the illegal training. (He ordered the ATF  (alcohol, tobacco, firearms)  to raid a training camp near Mandeville La. in July 1963.  ( Lee Oswald had uncovered the secret camp and reported it)  Many Cubans and their CIA handlers were arrested and munitions were seized.

J Edgar Hoover sanctioned the illegal camps ( His Mafia associates wanted their casinos and drug manufacturing and warehouses back )

JFK did not inform Hoover that he was going to have the ATF raid the camp until the last minute ( about 1 hour before the raid)  when he then ordered Hoover to provide FBI agents in support of the ATF.  Needless to say, Hoover was furious at having to support the destruction of an enterprise that he had sanctioned and promised his criminal buddies he was supporting. 

That raid was the fertilization of the seed that lead to the murder of JFK.....

P.S.  The raid also led to the death of Lee Oswald...  Because it didn't take a genius to figure out who the rat was who had tipped JFK about the illegal camp at Mandeville.  Hoover knew that Lee was the snitch and he got both JFK and LHO ...

[Eddie Haymaker]

Well evidence comes in many different forms

but why supply it when your minds are clearly made up

there seems to be 2 separate ideologies shared on this website

we are not about to change each others minds

Why dont you show me how a bullet enters around the third thoracic vertebrae

and reappears at someones throat?

get your partner to point on your back how low that is please

That is more fantastical than any cuban/cia/santa conspiracy one might produce

PROVE THAT TO ME

please provide evidence to your claims

NOTE-please refrain from personal attacks (like how many posts I have)
I am here to discuss  this ISSUE, not you personally.

Thankyou.

[Eddie Haymaker]

Please explain the MBT.

I assume you are a staunch defender of the Warren Report.

So lets hear it.

Thankyou



How does a bullet move from this position to the midde of the throat

without destroying the spinal column?

[Eddie Haymaker]

I do not spend time researching you - No, sorry.

please forgive me

So what is your position exactly?

Because when you ridicule others for having CT's.

but you don't believe in the WR?

that seems inconsistent

[Walt Cakebread]

Paine told several versions of how she acquired the letter that Lee wrote to the "Russian Embassy"  ( although the letter was addressed to the Russian Embassy, Lee knew that the FBI was reading all of the mail addressed to the embassy.   I believe the information in the letter was primarily for the FBI's intelligence files. )  The letter is NOT written in Cyrillic, but Ruth Pain said he used her cyrillic typewrier.


There's only one version I'm familiar with and that's the one she gave to the WC. How would Oswald know his letter would be intercepted by the FBI? That's just wild speculation. Ruth Paine did not say he used her Cyrillic typewriter. More wild 

Some accounts say that she simply purloined the hand written rough draft of the letter, which she gave Hosty, while other accounts say she copied a typewritten letter ( written in Russian on her Cyrillic typewriter  )


What may those accounts be? And don't tell me to look for them. You make the claims and I think it's your responsibility to cite the source since it's not commonly known material.

And I'm not retreating from my idea that Ruth Pain was paid by Hoover to keep tabs on the Oswald's and the FBI provided "reimbursement" for services rendered.....


You can believe whatever it is you want to believe but it would help your credibility if a valid source was provided.

I've studied this case for decades, I can't remember  where I learned everything... And I'll be blistered if I'm going to try to verify stuff that I know....

If someone asks how I know the sun rises in the east, I'm not going to waste my time in proving the the earth rotates in a counterclockwise direction ( viewed from above the north pole) on a N/S axis as it revolves around the sun. 

I know the sun rises in the east.... and I know Lee Oswald did not murder either JFK or J.D.Tippit....