The Magic Bullet - Fact or Fiction?

[Andrew Mason]

Mr. DEVINE. The first shot that you hear which caused you to look to your right, I think you said you didn't get far enough around to see the President, is that accurate?
Mr. CONNALLY. That is correct.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/m_j_russ/hscacon.htm

Fair enough. But that does not mean that he could have turned farther and decided not to turn farther.  The point is that he was trying to turn to see the President but couldn't catch him in the corner of his eye to see how he was so he decided to turn to the left, which is where it appeared to him he would get a better view of JFK - presumably because JFK had moved to the left.  Where do you see that move to the left in the zfilm prior to z225?

[Andrew Mason]

The simultaneous reaction of both Kennedy and Connally is unmistakable and undeniable. They were both hit at virtually the same time by the same bullet.

I agree that both are reacting at the same time to a shot. Whether the reactions began at the same time is not possible to tell because we cannot see if JFK began reacting while behind the Stemmons sign. He certainly appears very different when he emerges in z225 than he did in z193. The fact that both are reacting to a shot does not mean that they are reacting to being hit by it.  The evidence is pretty strong that there was only one shot to that point.  If that is the case, JBC is reacting to the first shot exactly as he said he did- by turning to his right to see the president because he had just heard a rifle shot and thought an assassination was occurring.

[Andrew Mason]

How do we know Connally was reacting to being hit? Maybe he was just reacting to a round landing within a couple feet of him. If the round did come through the windshield it would have passed within inches of Connally's head.
 I find it questionable that after having 4 inches of rib blasted away he would/could twist around to his right as far as he could  to see JFK. Secondly he holds his Stetson in his right hand after having his Radius shattered and the tendon to his thumb  severed. Then he articulates his wrist downward to fit his hat between him and the door of the limo as he twists around to see JFK. If a round passes through your wrist I doubt you would then bend it like he does.

Very good question. Connally said he reacted to the shot - the first shot - that he believed struck JFK because he heard it and knew it was a rifle shot. He feared an assassination was unfolding and turned to see the President.

The evidence is consistent that the first shot struck JFK so what you see after z230 is Connally's turn to see JFK which he said he did before he was hit in the back on the second shot. The vast majority of witnesses who recalled a pattern to the shots said the last two were closer together so Connally was hit many frames later.  Greer said he turned around immediately after the second shot. His turns just before z280. That is just after Connally is hit.

The irony is that with this evidence (first shot hit JFK, first shot was after z190, last two shots were closer together) there is no need to explain a missed shot for which there is no evidence and there is no need for a second shooter.  Oswald could easily have fired all three.

[Tim Nickerson]

Fair enough. But that does not mean that he could have turned farther and decided not to turn farther.  The point is that he was trying to turn to see the President but couldn't catch him in the corner of his eye to see how he was so he decided to turn to the left, which is where it appeared to him he would get a better view of JFK - presumably because JFK had moved to the left.  Where do you see that move to the left in the zfilm prior to z225?

Why should we presume that JFK had moved to the left at that point? Connally simply had not turned far enough to his right. Myers has him reaching a 48 degree right rotation at z193. That just wasn't far enough to see Kennedy. Why Connally stopped there, I don't know.

[Tim Nickerson]

I agree that both are reacting at the same time to a shot. Whether the reactions began at the same time is not possible to tell because we cannot see if JFK began reacting while behind the Stemmons sign. He certainly appears very different when he emerges in z225 than he did in z193. The fact that both are reacting to a shot does not mean that they are reacting to being hit by it.  The evidence is pretty strong that there was only one shot to that point.  If that is the case, JBC is reacting to the first shot exactly as he said he did- by turning to his right to see the president because he had just heard a rifle shot and thought an assassination was occurring.

As Kennedy emerges from behind the sign, the involuntary reaction has yet to show itself. We can see his right hand and arm, that he had been lowering after waving to the crowd, still dropping. He did not begin reacting while behind the Stemmons sign.



The reactions of both Kennedy and Connally begin at the same time.  They are in sync.

[Andrew Mason]

Why should we presume that JFK had moved to the left at that point? Connally simply had not turned far enough to his right.

The problem with that reasoning is that Connally said he was TRYING TO SEE THE PRESIDENT. If I recall correctly, in his initial hospital statement he said the JFK had moved and he could not see him when he turned. There is no way at all that he was trying to see the President prior to disappearing behind the Stemmons sign.

Myers has him reaching a 48 degree right rotation at z193. That just wasn't far enough to see Kennedy. Why Connally stopped there, I don't know.

Right. Exactly.  The reason is rather obvious: he wasn't trying to see the President. If he was he would have turned around like he did after z230.

[Andrew Mason]

As Kennedy emerges from behind the sign, the involuntary reaction has yet to show itself. We can see his right hand and arm, that he had been lowering after waving to the crowd, still dropping. He did not begin reacting while behind the Stemmons sign.

You are still speculating that the lowering of his hand was not part of the reaction in itself. We don't know that. 

I would point out that the WC thought at z225 JFK was reacting to being shot (WR 98):

"When President Kennedy again came fully into view in the Zapruder film at frame 225, he seemed to be reacting to his neck wound by raising his hands to his throat.  ...  According to Shaneyfelt the reaction was ?clearly apparent in 226 and barely apparent in 225.?

The HSCA found that JFK was reacting well before z224 (HSCA Rep. 46):

"By Zapruder frame 207, when President Kennedy is seen going behind a sign that obstructed Zapruder's view, he appears to be reacting to a severe external stimulus. This reaction is first indicated in the vicinity of frame 200 of the Zapruder film. The President's right hand freezes in the midst of a waving motion, followed by a rapid leftward movement of his head. (43) There is, therefore, photographic evidence of a shot striking the President by this time."

In the footnote on page 44 of its report, the HSCA noted:

"In its report, the committee's photographic Connally reacted to his wounds evidence panel suggested that Governor interval might have been approximately one second after President Kennedy. This interval might have been even less, but a sign obstructing Zapruder's field of view made it impossible to study the Governor immediately after the President first appeared to be reacting to having been shot."

So people who do not share your confidence that JFK is not reacting behind the sign are not being unreasonable. They are just unpersuaded by the evidence and your argument. 

The reactions of both Kennedy and Connally begin at the same time.  They are in sync.

Only if you are correct that JFK was not already reacting behind the sign. Many, many witnesses said he brought his hands down toward his neck/chest in response to the first shot. They could see JFK "behind" the sign.

In any event, what is the significance of them both beginning to react at the same time? That does not mean that both were reacting to being hit by it.  JBC said he reacted to the first shot, which Nellie and about 20 others saw that JFK also reacted to.

[Walt Cakebread]

Anyone can make stuff like that up. What is your source for the existence of such a rifle? And where can we find one?


.45 calibre is awfully big for a rifle - almost 2x the diameter of the 6.5 mm - 4x the cross-sectional area.  Stability would be a huge problem unless the bullet length increases substantially. But that increases bullet mass and therefore the amount of energy required, so it needs proportionately more powder.  But that is not all. Air resistance increases a the square of the diameter too, which increases the stability forces required. So spin rate has to be even higher to maintain accuracy. But to get a high spin rate it has to traverse the barrel faster.  If you shorten the barrel you have to increase the speed even more.  So I would be very surprised if anyone made such a rifle because it would have so many problems with accuracy.

Why are you attempting to apply the old axiom...If you can't dazzle em with brilliance.. then try to baffle em with BS

Why not do a little honest research and determine the diameter of the dent??