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Author Topic: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision  (Read 14097 times)

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2019, 03:31:32 PM »
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This post is a result of attempting to verify the details posted on the Ed Forum of a John T Martin, born November 9, 1943 in California, who was old enough to have served in Germany in the 24th I.D. under Gen. Walker's command. I tracked down that John T Martin via his father's 2004 and his older sister's 2018 obits.

He resides in Minnesota, under the name Tim, graduated high school in 1962 and served in the US Navy until 1966, including in the naval blockade of Cuba in late October, and is very patriotic. A newsletter of his neighborhood provided enough detail about him to eliminate him, resulting in further searching
revealing the correct Martin, elusive since Gary drove him to his home in 1968, borrowed his film, and made at least one copy which he could not locate in 2012. This new, radicalized younger fellow, was last accounted for no later than 2013 in a list of alumni donors of his (militarized) high school graduating year.

I've spent some time searching and I found no mention on this forum of the intriguing coincidence of a young man from St. Paul, MN, a 17 year old Minuteman
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=89629&relPageId=60&search=%221752_iglehart%22 ("Chess" is also mentioned in the new Martin's profile)
in summer, 1963, journeying to Gen. Edwin Walker's leased Turtle Creek home, filming a bullet hole through a interior wall, apparently with Gen. Walker's approval or encouragement, travelling to New Orleans shortly thereafter, and managing to also capture Oswald distributing leaflets on the same film reel on August 9, 1963.

There is no way to confirm the Sixth Floor Museum presents the entire film. Martin suspected it was altered, in reaction to re-viewing the original and then only reel after the FBI returned it to him in late January, 1964, after borrowing it in response to his offer to the FBI for a review. NOLA FBI claimed it was not found to be useful.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60411&relPageId=104&search=%221752_iglehart%22

https://emuseum.jfk.org/objects/36908/john-t-martin-film

Quote
https://jfkassassinationfiles.wordpress.com/2017/01/13/the-oswald-films-an-outline/
2a. The Jack Martin film (August 9, 1963)
...Watch from 0:40 through 1:09 for the General Walker footage, and 2:39 through 2:53 for the Oswald New Orleans footage. ...

In the third week of January, 1963, federal charges resulting from the Sept., 1962 Mississippi race riots against Gen. Walker were dropped but the DOJ retained the option of reinstating the charges until Sept., 1968.
https://www.nytimes.com/1963/01/22/archives/riot-charges-against-walker-and-6-others-dropped-by-us-walker.html?searchResultPosition=2

I have discovered that this young Minnesota film maker, John T Martin, called for the abolition of the U.S. Supreme Court in early 1963. He seems the most proudly radical political extremist I've noticed in a high school setting.

Was his filming, especially in New Orleans on August 9, simply random "luck"? What evidence remains to support that he actually captured on film what I described above? Had he met or been in communication with Gen. Walker, pre-dating making arrangements to visit him? It is unlikely a boy of his age could have performed active duty coinciding with Gen. Walker's pre-retirement.

If John T. Martin (Gary had met him in 1968) had told Gary he served under Gen. Walker in Germany, and consider Gary was recalling, cold, a 40 year old conversation, and Martin's age when Gen. Walker resigned made serving under him unlikely, how likely was his claim of pivoting from right oriented extremist to demilitarized "pacifist"?

Gary was a mid-20s friend of Harold Weisberg and said in 2012 their interest was only about the New Orleans faces on the film, not were yet aware of the Walker visit and bullet hole filming.
Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/4738-jack-s-martin-sr/page/3/?tab=comments#comment-244473
.....
From: Gary Schoener

Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2012 7:17 AM

To: Paul Trejo

Subject: Re: Seeking the 1968 companion of Harold Weisberg...

Yes, the person is me. I was a longtime friend and co-worker with Harold. The comment about John Martin being a "student" makes me wonder whether my memory is correct. I remember him as late 20's or early 30's, but that was a long time ago. My memory was that we encountered him when he phone a radio station, not at a talk -- he called into a radio show that Harold and I did together. (I had arranged for Harold to speak a the U. of Minnesota, but believe that the radio show which followed was where we heard from him).

Ironically, on that same show a photography professional whose last name was Patsy called in and he ended up taking the Martin film and printing it out. That's how we discovered that LHO appeared to be paying attention and possibly even gesturing to someone else walking parallel to him. One figure in the film was very fat and Harold immediately remarked it looked like Dean Andrews, although there are a ton of fat people in NO and there was no way that you could see his face.

The only things I recall were that John was formerly a right-winger who was a member of the John Birch Society and the Minutemen, but somehow serving under Gen. Edwin Walker in Germany caused him to become a pacifist and have to be dischrged from the army.

The film was taken on a family trip and the other segment on it showed the zoo in NO.

We did go to his home, but I have no idea where that was. I don't even know if it was in Mpls. or St. Paul.

He took it to the FBI who copied it, but did not realize until we examined it that the FBI had returned a copy, not the original. He believed that what they gave back to him was edited but was not 100% sure. He thought some footage was missing.

Gary Schoener
« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 12:26:51 PM by Tom Scully »

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2019, 03:31:32 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2019, 06:10:47 PM »
I don't think Oswald had a doggone thing to do with Gen Walker and General Walker didn't either.
Edwin Walker also thought that the Warren Report was a whitewash.

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2019, 12:46:10 AM »
I don't think Oswald had a doggone thing to do with Gen Walker and General Walker didn't either.
Edwin Walker also thought that the Warren Report was a whitewash.

Please Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house.

And please explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker.    She couldn't have learned about it from Radio or TV because she didn't understand English....Nor could she have learned about the shot through Walker's window from newspaper's ...   

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2019, 12:46:10 AM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2019, 03:22:03 AM »
Please Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house.

And please explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker.    She couldn't have learned about it from Radio or TV because she didn't understand English....Nor could she have learned about the shot through Walker's window from newspaper's ...   

Bingo! Walt. This "film maker" in summer, 1963, links Gen. Walker to Oswald. His background is opposite extreme of Oswald's patsyfied background.
Was John T. Martin a "back up, Patsy"? Quite busy and character rich background noise, especially for an LN loser. Ed Butler, the radio debate, Osborne/Bowen on the Mexican bus, Another Bowen used as mask for John Cesar Grossi, bro-in-law of Dial Ryder, witness/ temp landlady Mary Bledsoe related to RD Matthews, William Whaley age change, lost military combat award, etc.

A 17 year old, military high school senior and a 24 year old former, USMC defector to USSR. How much controversy could be packed into two "suitcases" as young as Martin and Oswald without blowing up their Walker connections?

......
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=89629&relPageId=60&search=%221752_iglehart%22



« Last Edit: December 16, 2019, 03:30:03 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2019, 03:23:36 PM »
Please Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house.

And please explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker.    She couldn't have learned about it from Radio or TV because she didn't understand English....Nor could she have learned about the shot through Walker's window from newspaper's ...   
''Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house''.
How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?
" ..explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker." 
After the assassination a lot was 'revealed' to Marina. That Oswald owned a rifle...that she took the pictures of him with it...that he planned on killing Nixon...that he tried to kill Walker...that he beat her often...and on and on.
She could play ball or be on the next plane back to Moscow.

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2019, 03:23:36 PM »


Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2019, 09:16:57 PM »
''Explain the reason that Lee had created a false dossier that included photos of Walker's house and the vicinity near Walker's house''.
How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?
" ..explain how Marina knew all about the "attempt" to shoot Walker." 
After the assassination a lot was 'revealed' to Marina. That Oswald owned a rifle...that she took the pictures of him with it...that he planned on killing Nixon...that he tried to kill Walker...that he beat her often...and on and on.
She could play ball or be on the next plane back to Moscow.

How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?

You have two good eyes....LOOK at page 113 of Chief Curry's book .....  There are photos that were taken by the DPD on the evening of 11/22/63.   The photos show Lee Oswald's possessions which the DPD took ( illegally) from the Paine Residence that afternoon....

The photo of Walker's house is clearly visible among Lee's possessions...but the cops had no idea that they had Lee's false dossier.

 Even the FBI never knew that Lee had been involved in the Walker Hoax until the story appeared in a German News paper in early December.    After that story was published ...The FBI started asking Marina questions about the Walker incident....and she gave them many of the details.

Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2019, 01:29:26 AM »
How do we really know that Oswald actually did all of that?

You have two good eyes....LOOK at page 113 of Chief Curry's book .....  There are photos that were taken by the DPD on the evening of 11/22/63.   The photos show Lee Oswald's possessions which the DPD took ( illegally) from the Paine Residence that afternoon....

How would anybody know which items did or did not belong to Oswald?

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2019, 02:10:54 AM »
How would anybody know which items did or did not belong to Oswald?
Or which items just happened to conveniently show up. I thought that was what I was asking.
You know everybody--- Dead men tell no tales---Yes, it's true...But in this case...we have everybody else telling them for him :-\
In all the history of mankind, I don't think that anybody had ever left more incriminating "evidence" behind than what Oswald supposedly did.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: Gen. Walker and Supreme Court Decision
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2019, 02:10:54 AM »