Oswald in the TSBD just after the shooting

[Colin Crow]

It was impossible for anyone to send the elevators anywhere.

I don't attach any great significance to this....   However I do know that an elevator could be sent to a different floor  with out anybody aboard the elevator...

Some of those old elevators could be sent off to another floor by pressing a different floor number while the door was open.....Then when the door (or gate) closed the elevator would go to the floor as if someone was on the elevator and had pressed the button....

The point being of this post was to illustrate how a direct quote could be attributed when recalling an event that likely was never phrased that way. The intent could be similar but it is to illustrate how the observation by Kelly that Oswald ate his lunch with Jarman and Norman is likely a misunderstanding of what Oswald actually said. As with Bookout, "walking through" the lunchroom makes no sense given the layout, but "walking by" does.

[Colin Crow]

If Oswald did claim such an alibi on the morning of the 23rd there is no evidence it was ever followed up by the DPD, FBI or SS....all of whom were represented at that interrogation session.

say two negro came (come?) in
one Jr - + short negro - ask?   ..... "ASK"....  I believe that was Fritz reminding himself to ask and verify the account that Lee had related to him...

I believe you'll find that there is evidence that Captain Fritz sent at least one of his detectives over to the TSBD to "ASK" about what Lee Oswald had told him....   

although it's not spelled out in clear detail, if you read Junior Jarman's and Harold Norman's testimony you'll discern that they had been questioned by the DPD about Lee Oswald's account ( alibi) ...

I'll see if I can find the testimony in which they reveal that the DPD had asked them about their movements that day....

In the meanwhile please note that Jarman during his question before the WC on March 24, has amazing recall of an event that happened before the shooting....  How did he remember all those insignificant tiny details 4 months after the fact???

I believe the reason he was able to recall the trivia was because he'd been closely questioned about his actions just before the shooting....   The fact hat he was questioned required that he recall the event .... He was probably asked about his ( and Norman's) actions just a couple of hours after the shooting.....  And that cemented the event in his mind....

The same is true for Harold Norman...  Who did not have a high IQ.....

Any yet his amazing recall changed during his WC testimony.......suddenly Williams was no longer along for the ride up the elevator. Both Norman and Jarman repeatedly claimed he was with them in statements and interviews over a period of 4 months then it all changed. What motivation did they have to do so?

[Walt Cakebread]

The point being of this post was to illustrate how a direct quote could be attributed when recalling an event that likely was never phrased that way. The intent could be similar but it is to illustrate how the observation by Kelly that Oswald ate his lunch with Jarman and Norman is likely a misunderstanding of what Oswald actually said. As with Bookout, "walking through" the lunchroom makes no sense given the layout, but "walking by" does.

FBI Agent  Bookout's statement that Lee said that he witnessed Jarman and Norman.... "walking through" the lunchroom makes no sense given the layout, but "walking by" does.

That's absolutely right and reasonable....  The 1st floor lunchroom had windows on the east and north sides of the room.....And Jarman and Norman would have walked by those windows as they traveled to the back door of the TSBD as they were on their way to the fifth floor at about 12:26/ 12:27.

And Lee Oswald couldn't have avoided noticing them as they "walked by"

[Colin Crow]

FBI Agent  Bookout's statement that Lee said that he witnessed Jarman and Norman.... "walking through" the lunchroom makes no sense given the layout, but "walking by" does.

That's absolutely right and reasonable....  The 1st floor lunchroom had windows on the east and north sides of the room.....And Jarman and Norman would have walked by those windows as they traveled to the back door of the TSBD as they were on their way to the fifth floor at about 12:26/ 12:27.

And Lee Oswald couldn't have avoided noticing them as they "walked by"

And so trying to use them by way of an alibi if he knew they were not near the lunchroom at that time makes no sense. Any fool would know the police would check and the alibi would easily be shown to be a lie. Especially as he had not mentioned the day before. in that interrogation he was eating alone, why now try to change to be eating with those two. Makes no sense.

However if the conversation went like this.....

Fritz: Lee you told me you were in the lunchroom........did you see anyone else when you were in there who might be able to verify your presence?

Oswald: Well the only other employees I saw were Junior and another short guy pass just before the commotion.

Kelley mistakenly assumes he meant he was eating lunch with the. Simple misunderstanding.

The real issue here is that the have 2 key witnesses who were prepared to lie about the presence of someone who was not in there presence. Who they also lie about someone they had seen but claimed not to? Especially if that someone was a dead commie accused Presidential assassin.

[Tim Nickerson]

So you believe that Oswald tried to create an alibi by identifying two individuals in the "lunchroom" with him. These two were directly below the SN and their conversations likely audible to a 6th floor assassin in the SE window.

So in your view an innocent pleading assassin Oswald was some kind of moron, one whose best explanation was to include individuals who could easily prove him to be a liar. Possible that he even knew they were not able to be even in the lunchroom at the time of the shots. This was after he was aware some of his fellow workmates were at DPDHQ with him and being questioned.

What a cunning plan.....

Colin,

 Yes, I believe that Oswald was some kind of a moron. He said numerous things in those interviews/interrogations that were easily proven to be lies.

There were others present aside from Kelley......what did they say? This was afterall a key piece of the investigation......the accused's alibi. He was asked on more than one occasion I believe.

Wonder if there was any confusion about "lunchroom" by those present at the interrogations. Did those present have a good idea of the layout of the building at the time and the workers lunch habits?

Officers E.L. Boyd and R.M. Sims were present at that interview. Neither of them said anything relevant to the question at hand. FBI Agents Hosty and Bookhout were present at one of the first day interviews. They reported that Oswald claimed that he ate his lunch in the first floor lunchroom and was on that floor when the President went by.

[Colin Crow]

Colin,

 Yes, I believe that Oswald was some kind of a moron. He said numerous things in those interviews/interrogations that were easily proven to be lies.

Officers E.L. Boyd and R.M. Sims were present at that interview. Neither of them said anything relevant to the question at hand. FBI Agents Hosty and Bookhout were present at one of the first day interviews. They reported that Oswald claimed that he ate his lunch in the first floor lunchroom and was on that floor when the President went by.

I?ve since updated Bookout's reports in a more extensive later post. He was the one who used the term "passed through". Hosty was excluded from all bar the first interview. Some present at the interrogations have a different view of Oswald?s intellect than you. He only provided answers in a very careful fashion.

[Colin Crow]

Officers E.L. Boyd and R.M. Sims were present at that interview. Neither of them said anything relevant to the question at hand. FBI Agents Hosty and Bookhout were present at one of the first day interviews. They reported that Oswald claimed that he ate his lunch in the first floor lunchroom and was on that floor when the President went by.

Officers Sims and Boyd made Fritz look like a genius......no notes or memory of much at all......then again they were merely detectives involved in the murder of the President....the accused supposed alibi is of little significance to Dallas detectives it seems.

[Tim Nickerson]

Officers Sims and Boyd made Fritz look like a genius......no notes or memory of much at all......then again they were merely detectives involved in the murder of the President....the accused supposed alibi is of little significance to Dallas detectives it seems.

He doesn't have an alibi. Nobody placed him on the first floor at the time of the shooting. If he really did say that he saw Jarman and Norman walk through, which I assume that's what you believe, then that still doesn't place him on the first floor at the time of the shooting. From the sniper's nest window, he would have seen those two standing out on the sidewalk and then he would have seen them as they headed towards the Southeast corner of the building. Then a few minutes later he would have heard them on the floor below as they chatted at the open windows. He would have known that they had passed through the first floor near the Domino room on their way to the elevators.