Did Oswald Go To Mexico City?

[Joffrey van de Wiel]

Yes, that's what I understand too. When he arrived in Mexico City he went directly to the Cuban consulate in search of a transit visa not a regular visa: transit. He told Duran that his wife and family were going to the Soviet Union and he was going to join them. But he wanted to visit Cuba before returning and wanted a transit visa. Marina testified that he told her that he was going to go to Cuba and that she should go to the USSR. He then would (somehow) get them to come to Cuban once he was settled there.

When he was told by Duran that he needed to show a Soviet visa first before being given the Cuban transit visa he then went to the Soviet Embassy in search of one. According to the Soviets, he never actually filled out an application for one but asked them to expedite his previous request. And Soviet records indicate that they had made the decision earlier to turn down both Oswald's and Marina's requests for visas.

As to his denial: It's strange that supposedly he was framed for going to Mexico City by the FBI but then the FBI - Hosty - said he denied going there. That makes no sense. If they're framing him then why not say he admitted going there? He is dead; he cannot deny.

And if you believe Harry Holmes, the Dallas postal inspector who questioned Oswald on Sunday, Oswald admitted to him that he did visit Mexico City. I think Holmes' testimony here is very, very dubious.

Mr. BELIN. Did he admit that he went to Mexico?
Mr. HOLMES. Oh, yes.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say what community in Mexico he went to?
Mr. HOLMES. Mexico City.
Mr. BELIN. Did he say what he did while he was there?
Mr. HOLMES. He went to the Mexican consulate, I guess.
(Discussion off the record.)
Mr. BELIN. Now, with regard to this Mexican trip, did he say who he saw in Mexico?
Mr. HOLMES. Only that he went to the Mexican consulate or Embassy or something and wanted to get permission, or whatever it took to get to Cuba. They refused him and he became angry and he said he burst out of there, and I don't know. I don't recall now why he went into the business about how mad it made him.
He goes over to the Russian Embassy. He was already at the American. This was the Mexican--he wanted to go to Cuba.
Then he went to the Russian Embassy and he said, because he said then he wanted to go to Russia by way of Cuba, still trying to get to Cuba and try that angle and they refused and said, "Come back in 30 days," or something like that. And, he went out of there angry and disgusted.

-Steve-

He told Duran that his wife and family were going to the Soviet Union and he was going to join them.

So HE DID want to return to the USSR? Don't you see that this course of action on the part of Oswald is not logical nor rational? Why would Marina want to return? Oswald spent 18 months in desperate efforts to get back to the USA, and  proclaims his distaste for the Soviet system, yet a little over a year later he wants to return? That does make no sense at all to me.

Oswald's IQ was about 118, the fact that his writings are a pain to read is because he was dyslectic. Yet this reasonable intelligent man, in many instances, always takes the least rational, logical decisions. Or so we are told. This leads me to believe that Lee was either a) deranged and detached from reality; or b) ordered or manipulated in some way by others to engage in activities that are an affront to logic and reason. Case in point: he complains to people about being harassed by the FBI, and what does he do? Does he lay low and keep a low profile? Of course not. He gets into this weird and partially fake FPCC stuff, picks a fight with anti-Castro Cubans, the police bust his ass in jail and then he requests to speak to the FBI! That is not logical.

When he was told by Duran that he needed to show a Soviet visa first before being given the Cuban transit visa he then went to the Soviet Embassy in search of one. According to the Soviets, he never actually filled out an application for one but asked them to expedite his previous request. And Soviet records indicate that they had made the decision earlier to turn down both Oswald's and Marina's requests for visas.

Another example of irrational behavior on Oswald's part. He needs the Soviet visa to get the Cuban visa in order to execute his plan. He doesn't even bother to fill out the damn form? What's the point in going through all this trouble to get to Mexico City and then fail to execute the necessary steps in order to complete his 'mission'?

As to his denial: It's strange that supposedly he was framed for going to Mexico City by the FBI but then the FBI - Hosty - said he denied going there. That makes no sense. If they're framing him then why not say he admitted going there? He is dead; he cannot deny.

I do not know. Perhaps Hosty wasn't ín' on it? Speculation on my part, which leads nowhere.

I think Holmes' testimony here is very, very dubious.

I agree. Oswald admitted that he had visited Mexico - Tijuana I think - while in the Marine Corps and with a fellow Marine. Can't remember the name of Lee's companion, I think it was a Spanish sounding name.

[Jerry Freeman]

One thing that keeps nagging me. Established earlier...A passport [let alone a visa] was not required to visit Mexico back then.
Why would Oswald [who seemed cheap and apparently lazy in every other way] bother to get a visa some 10 days before he actually was supposed to have left?
I suggest that this visa was obtained by an impersonator who had the necessary credentials with the sole and solitary intent of establishing a paper trail that led straight to Oswald/Cuba.
It also seems too apparent that the commission staff was not charged with explaining Oswald in Mexico so much as just making the incident go away.
The Odio affair threw a stink into all of that. It simply reeked of conspiracy....so she was conveniently "mistaken".
 

[Ted Shields]

One thing that keeps nagging me. Established earlier...A passport [let alone a visa] was not required to visit Mexico back then.
Why would Oswald [who seemed cheap and apparently lazy in every other way] bother to get a visa some 10 days before he actually was supposed to have left?
I suggest that this visa was obtained by an impersonator who had the necessary credentials with the sole and solitary intent of establishing a paper trail that led straight to Oswald/Cuba.
It also seems too apparent that the commission staff was not charged with explaining Oswald in Mexico so much as just making the incident go away.
The Odio affair threw a stink into all of that. It simply reeked of conspiracy....so she was conveniently "mistaken".

Were they all mistaken? All the people who met him.

Its a massive effort to go to - multiple fake witnesses, Australian girls on buses, multiple fake signatures - Cubans and Russians involved, all that risk, for no benefit to any conspiracy.

It makes no sense.

[Richard Smith]

One thing that keeps nagging me. Established earlier...A passport [let alone a visa] was not required to visit Mexico back then.
Why would Oswald [who seemed cheap and apparently lazy in every other way] bother to get a visa some 10 days before he actually was supposed to have left?
I suggest that this visa was obtained by an impersonator who had the necessary credentials with the sole and solitary intent of establishing a paper trail that led straight to Oswald/Cuba.
It also seems too apparent that the commission staff was not charged with explaining Oswald in Mexico so much as just making the incident go away.
The Odio affair threw a stink into all of that. It simply reeked of conspiracy....so she was conveniently "mistaken".

That appears to be a "tourist card" that is necessary to fill out to gain entry to Mexico (i.e. an immigration form).  It is not officially a "visa." They were and still are required to travel to Mexico.  There is a reference to it in a March 25, 1964 memo (note the comma after Lee that appears on the form):

"The comma following Oswald's first name and the fact that he was posing as a photographer probably derived from the fact that this comma somehow slipped into his name when his tourist card was made out and that the tourist card also listed him as a photographer." 

Obviously Oswald wanted the passport to travel to Cuba.  It had nothing to do with Mexico.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Please share the source for your statement so I can catch up on this (for me) new information?


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=49&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=50&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=51&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=52&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=53&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1133#relPageId=54&tab=page


Please take notice that in LHO's letter (attached to Marina's letter) he requests that his visa be considered separately. Marina was unaware of the request for the separate visa until well after the assassination. LHO had told Marina he wanted to go back to Russia with her and the kid(s). But he had no such intentions as the resume he prepared for the Cubans and the separate letter show.

Good work.

Marina explained their plans - or more accurately, his plans for her - in her testimonies (WC/HSCA). This is also recounted in more detail in the Priscilla McMillan book "Marina and Lee".

Briefly (again): He wanted her and the baby to return to the USSR, he would go to Cuba, and then he would (somehow) get her and the baby to join him in Cuba. He was determined to join the "revolution" and help "Fidel" (Marina said he used to sing songs to Castro). Recall that she said he suggested to her that they  hijack a plane and have it flown to Cuba? Although she also said she thought he was just testing her loyalty and that it wasn't a serious suggestion.

Marina in her HSCA testimony said this: "Well, I knew for a long time that Fidel Castro was his hero. He was a great admirer of him, so, he was in some kind of revolutionary mood at that period of time. He thought that maybe he would be, I mean, he would be happy to work for Fidel Castro causes or something like that."

And this:
Mr. McDONALD/MARINA - Did he want to go to live in Cuba?
Mrs. PORTER/MARINA - I assume then he did.
Mr. McDONALD/MARINA - What specifically did he say?
Mrs. PORTER/MARINA - Well, he said that he go over there first and then he will send for me.
Mr. McDONALD - Go where first?
Mrs. PORTER - To Cuba.
 
This plan was also why, I believe, he was protesting on behalf of Castro and Cuba. He was creating a pro-revolution "resume" or history to show the Cubans. Which according to Duran, he did.

Marina said that when she said goodbye to Oswald as she was headed back to Texas with Ruth Paine and he was headed to Mexico City that she had tears in her eyes. He did too. She said she was sure it would be the last time she saw him.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

Galbraith,

Why did Sylvia Duran and Eusebio Azcue (especially Azcue) both describe the "Oswald" at the Cuban consulate -- the man who had given Duran the taken-in-the-USSR passport-sized photos -- in such a way that perfectly described the physically distinctive (short, skinny, blond hair, blue eyes, 35 years old, very thin-faced) KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov, mentor to Raul Castro  and Che Guevara and "Third Secretary and Assistant Cultural Attache" at the Soviet embassy?

--  MWT 

PS  And, as Peter Dale Scott points out at the end of John Newman's two-part March 18, 2018 YouTube "Spy Wars" presentation, there's a scrap of paper in CIA files indicating that the September 28 and October 1 "Oswald" spoke bad English and bad Russian over the phone.

My theory:  The KGB impersonator (Leonov?) spoke bad English naturally, and intentionally spoke bad Russian because he didn't realize how fluent Oswald was in that language.

As I've said numerous times, if one wants to believe that all of this evidence - the eyewitness accounts, the physical evidence, the circumstantial evidence - is faked or phony then there's nothing further to discuss.

Whatever evidence is presented that Oswald went to Mexico City can be summarily dismissed as being inauthentic. So where is there to go?

You believe that the Cubans worked with the Soviets on this operation. Yet you believe that Azcue and Duran exposed it by revealing it wasn't Oswald. That makes no sense whatsoever. You say we can't believe the "communists" like Nechiporenko and Kostikov. But then believe the "communists" Azcue and Duran. That's illogical.

And for the tenth or twentieth time: Duran said that the man she met was Oswald. Her description is off but she said and has said repeatedly that the man was Lee Oswald. She testified to this. And has stated it in numerous interviews.

The CIA translators - Boris and Anne Tarasoff - who heard the phone calls from a person identifying himself as Oswald said the person spoken broken Russian. Neither said the person spoke broken English. They head the calls. That is what they testified to. Peter Dale Scott is a radical leftist who thinks the CIA killed JFK (and is the cause of every ill in the world). I find it remarkable that you use as a source someone you think has an anti-CIA bias and should be dismissed.

One can, as I said, look at the totality of evidence and conclude it was Oswald or one can look at the totality of evidence and conclude it was all part of some covert plan to fake the visit. It's a free choice.

[Jerry Freeman]

And for the tenth or twentieth time: Duran said that the man she met was Oswald. Her description is off but she said and has said repeatedly that the man was Lee Oswald. She testified to this. And has stated it in numerous interviews.

And for as many times..this was stated after the Mexican Federal goons beat the crap out of her and accused her of a probable affair with the accused assassin.

The tapes indicated that Duran made another call to the Soviet embassy on Saturday, 28th September. Duran then put an American on the line who spoke incomprehensible Russian.

A week after the assassination Elena Garro reported that she had seen Oswald at a party held by people from the Cuban consulate in September 1963. The following week, June Cobb, a CIA informant, confirmed Oswald presence at the party. She also had been told that Oswald was sleeping with Duran. Winston Scott reported this information to CIA headquarters but never got a reply.

Elena was a nutjob...go read her bio----   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Garro
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKduranS.htm
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Go read this article. Disagree if desired but at least read it. OK?---
  https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKduranS.htm

 

That appears to be a "tourist card" that is necessary to fill out to gain entry to Mexico (i.e. an immigration form). ...(note the comma after Lee that appears on the form):

It is a tourist card. Steve Galbraith called it a visa and that slipped by me. One researcher [David Joesephs] made a big deal about the name with the comma after Lee.
It is no big deal.
The tourist card was likely required if someone was going into Mexico using public transportation.
Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on February 05, 2020, 03:14:15 PM

Employees at the hotel and the nearby restaurant where he ate meals also said the man was Oswald.

Can testimony on that be linked? These statements are repeated constantly without obvious support.
I still have seen nothing to support these claims. Sylvia Odio actually testified and she is a liar?
From the Report...

He told a passenger whom he met on the next leg of his trip that he had come from New Orleans

Contradiction --I thought he was saying that he was from Ft Worth.
From the Report... 

1175 He was seen with no other person either at his hotel or at the restaurant.1176 A hotel guest stated that on one occasion he sat down at a table with Oswald because there was no empty table in the restaurant, but that neither spoke to the other because of the language barrier.1177

This is no testimony.
From the Report... 

She [Marina] had told him before he left that she would like Mexican silver bracelets as a souvenir, and he brought her a silver bracelet inscribed with her name.1186 Marina suspected, almost certainly correctly, that the bracelet, of Japanese origin, did not come from Mexico.1187 No such jewelry is known to be sold in or around Mexico City, because of a high duty 1188 but the bracelet is of a type commonly sold in 5-and-10-cent stores in Dallas.

From the Report...

2. The seat, No. 12, was reserved in the name of the travel agency, which recorded the reservation in the name of "H. O. Lee." 1192 The employee who made the reservation testified that he probably wrote the name that way because he was copying from Oswald's tourist card, which read "Lee, Harvey Oswald."

 

[Thomas Graves]

And for as many times..this was stated after the Mexican Federal goons beat the crap out of her and accused her of a probable affair with the accused assassin.Elena was a nutjob...go read her bio----   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elena_Garro
https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKduranS.htm
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Go read this article. Disagree if desired but at least read it. OK?---
  https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKduranS.htm

  It is a tourist card. Steve Galbraith called it a visa and that slipped by me. One researcher [David Joesephs] made a big deal about the name with the comma after Lee.
It is no big deal.
The tourist card was likely required if someone was going into Mexico using public transportation.
Quote from: Steve M. Galbraith on February 05, 2020, 03:14:15 PM Can testimony on that be linked? These statements are repeated constantly without obvious support.
I still have seen nothing to support these claims. Sylvia Odio actually testified and she is a liar?
From the Report...  Contradiction --I thought he was saying that he was from Ft Worth.
From the Report...   This is no testimony.
From the Report...  From the Report... 

And the Cuban consul, Eusebio Azcue, said the man was blond-haired, thin, about thirty-five years old, was wearing a suit, and was very thin-faced.

5' 3.5" Sylvia Duran said the "Oswald" she'd dealt with was short, about the same height as her.

Nikolai Leonov was 5' 7".

Oswald was 5' 9.5".

Oswald's hair was light brown in color.

Leonov's was blond.

Oswald, who probably wasn't in the Cuban consulate that day, was -- if we are to believe the photo which was probably taken in the USSR and was affixed to his Cuban visa application -- not wearing a suit.

Leonov, as "Third Secretary and Assistant Cultural Attache" at the Soviet embassy, wore a suit to work every workday.

Friday the 27th of September was a work day for him.

Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald was particularly thin-faced?

Nikolai Leonov was.

Do you think Lee Harvey Oswald looked thirty-five years old?

Leonov was thirty-five years old in 1963.

LOL

--  MWT