Lack Of Damage To CE-399

[Walt Cakebread]

I don't have a story; I'm just an observer... a juror
It's up to the prosecution & defence to present their cases

You are the ones concocting the 'stories'
(But I suggest you keep your day job)

You continue to ignore my research. I have addressed the bone v flesh FMJ-expected reactions in accordance with that research.

You are the ones concocting the 'stories'

You continue to ignore my research.     

[Walt Cakebread]

Have you ever researched the type of wounds from 6.5 mm rifles inflicted on Allied soldiers during WWII? There were relatively-"clean" through-and-through soft-tissue wounds as well as devastating hard-tissue head wounds.

That's air in the missile passage. It compromises the opacity of bone. The calvicle and ribs are weak on X-ray because of air.

You fail to appreciate the difference between how bullets of this type impact soft vs. hard tissue.

You fail to appreciate PT Barnum's observation..... You can fool some fools, some of the time,... and you can fool some fools all of the time...but you can't fool all fools all of the time...  There are some fools who may believe your BS......

[Andrew Mason]

Have you ever researched the type of wounds from 6.5 mm rifles inflicted on Allied soldiers during WWII? There were relatively-"clean" through-and-through soft-tissue wounds as well as devastating hard-tissue head wounds.

That's air in the missile passage. It compromises the opacity of bone. The calvicle and ribs are weak on X-ray because of air.

  Opacity of bone is a matter of bone density and thickness. Ribs are not really thick so they don't absorb xrays well when perpendicular to the xrays. When at an angle to the xrays they present more bone to the xray path so they block more, which is why the ribs at the sides are more opaque than the central parts. So although the opacity of the ribs is weakest where the lungs are fulllest, it is not because of air.  Air doesn't affect the bone's opacity.

You fail to appreciate the difference between how bullets of this type impact soft vs. hard tissue.

The bullet destroyed 10 cm of rib. According to you it was still travelling at 1700 fps when it struck the 5th rib. According to you it did not strike nose-first. According to Larry SPersonivan the jacketed 6.5 mm bullet will deform if it strikes bone at a much lesser speed nose-first and even lesser still if not nose first.  And that is just striking the rib. Then there is the radius, which is a very hard bone.  Do the irregular holes in the shirt cuff really look like they were made by CE399?:

[Walt Cakebread]

Since air in the lungs appear as black on an X-ray, it compromises the brightness of bone between the lungs and the X-ray machine lens.

SPersonivan is all over the map. The SBT rib strike would be oblique to the bone (ie: more of the bone's mass was in the missile path) whereas your theory would have the bullet strike the rib bone perpendicular (ie: very little bone in the missile path).

So, better to believe your cockamamie theory that a bullet (unimpeded and nose-on) made a right-angle turn (3D will show this, plus it would have to traverse the shoulder cuff to reach the fifth rib at all) off the thin weak fifth rib bone.

Your graphic:



You expecting a punched-out clean silhouette of the bullet shape? Unlike the back, the wrist is going to move quite a bit when struck and the bullet would deflect. Not a simple matter of a bullet going through a stiff supported surface and leaving clean holes.

Not a simple matter of a bullet going through a stiff supported surface and leaving clean holes.

That's not completely true......   The bullet that allegedly created this ragged teat , CE 399 was nearly pristine....It sure as hell wouldn't have created this kind of damage ....  I would agree that CE 399 may not have created a neat little hole.....but it would NOT have created this ragged tear either.....

[Jerry Freeman]

So according to the graphic posted earlier...the Magic Bullet struck three guys! This is getting richer by the minute.
There is still no proof at all..whatsoever-- that CE-399 was fired at the motorcade. A whole bullet was needed for the FBI to link the rifle found on the sixth floor with the shooting. Bits and pieces would not be enough.

[Walt Cakebread]

Mason and you are barking up the wrong tree.

    "The initial entrance of a bullet into fabric is generally circular or elliptical,
     depending upon the angle of fire. If the bullet has been unbalanced in flight,
     it may strike with a wobble or end over end; in either case, the hole is likely
     to be irregular in form. The size of the bullet hole is only roughly characteristic
     of the caliber of the bullet. If the bullet has met the fabric obliquely, the latter
     may be abraded on the near edge to present an appearance similar to that of
     moth-eaten area."

    "As might be expected, the fibers at the edge of the bullet hole are frequently
     pressed through the hole in the direction of passage. This finding is not
     sufficiently constant, however, to be considered with any degree of assurance.
     The explosive action of the bullet and gases in some instances causes a reversed
     appearance."

    "In estimating direction, due consideration should be given to the fact that the
     clothing is generally free to swing and assume positions other than that of the
     surface of the body."

          -- Excerpts from "Bullet Holes and Chemical Residues in Shooting Cases"
             Joseph T. Walker, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, Winter 1940

Here's another one for the clothing bunch:

    "By lining up the holes in the clothing with the entrance and exit wounds,
     it can be determined whether the victim was sitting, standing, slouched,
     or in another position."

          -- "Gunshot Wounds" ( Link )

"The initial entrance of a bullet into fabric is generally circular or elliptical,
     depending upon the angle of fire. If the bullet has been unbalanced in flight,
     it may strike with a wobble or end over end; in either case, the hole is likely
     to be irregular in form. The size of the bullet hole is only roughly characteristic
     of the caliber of the bullet. If the bullet has met the fabric obliquely, the latter
     may be abraded on the near edge to present an appearance similar to that of
     moth-eaten area."


The author is referring to a single hole.....   Does the damaged sleeve look like a single hole to you?....

[Andrew Mason]

SPersonivan is all over the map. The SBT rib strike would be oblique to the bone (ie: more of the bone's mass was in the missile path) whereas your theory would have the bullet strike the rib bone perpendicular (ie: very little bone in the missile path).

That is your take.  The bullet would have struck JBC's rib somewhat obliquely and bent the rib inward before penetrating the bone. After all, it caused a fracture of the 5th rib near the spine and pentetrated the last 10 cm of rib.

So, better to believe your cockamamie theory that a bullet (unimpeded and nose-on) made a right-angle turn (3D will show this, plus it would have to traverse the shoulder cuff to reach the fifth rib at all) off the thin weak fifth rib bone.

There is no right angle turn.   The cockamamie theory is the one that has the intact barely damaged bullet CE399 deflecting around the point of contact on the radius (instead of deflecting away from it), making a significant jagged tear in the cuff drawing threads into the wrist wound and then making a tiny, almost unnoticed, slit in the wrist on exit.

You expecting a punched-out clean silhouette of the bullet shape? Unlike the back, the wrist is going to move quite a bit when struck and the bullet would deflect. Not a simple matter of a bullet going through a stiff supported surface and leaving clean holes.

You do realize that the wrist cannot possibly move while the bullet is in contact with it. The time is too short.  It is in contact with the wrist for a fraction of a millisecond. 

[Walt Cakebread]

That is your take.  The bullet would have struck JBC's rib somewhat obliquely and bent the rib inward before penetrating the bone. After all, it caused a fracture of the 5th rib near the spine and pentetrated the last 10 cm of rib.
There is no right angle turn.   The cockamamie theory is the one that has the bullet deflecting around the radius making a significant jagged tear in the cuff drawing threads into the wrist wound and then making a tiny, almost unnoticed slit in the wrist on exit.
You do realize that the wrist cannot possibly move while the bullet is in contact with it. The time is too short.  It is in contact with the wrist for a fraction of a millisecond.

This damage does not appear to have been created by a single pristine FMJ bullet ( CE 399)

The ragged hole is what you might expect from a bullet that had hit a hard bone and shattered into several pieces......