Lack Of Damage To CE-399

[Jerry Freeman]

To address the "lack of damage" to CE-399...
The bullet, now traveling at around half of it's original speed, strikes Connally's fifth rib, completely shattering it.  Damage to the bullet was minimal due to the fact that it was not traveling anywhere near full speed when it struck the rib. etc etc.

Conjecture that addresses nothing.   Reply #5 ...Where is the proof that CE-399 was even fired at the motorcade that day?
So far, I've seen nothing that does that.
 

[Andrew Mason]

Conjecture that addresses nothing.   Reply #5 ...Where is the proof that CE-399 was even fired at the motorcade that day?
So far, I've seen nothing that does that.
 

The evidence that it was fired at the motorcade consists of the following:

1. three shots were fired at the motorcade
2. a bullet was found on a stretcher at Parkland by Tomlinson on the afternoon of 22/11/63 and passed along to Todd who put his initials on it.
3. the fragments of bullets found in the limo amounted to less than one bullet. None of the fragments could be conclusively tied to Oswald's gun.
4. point 3. was not known by anyone at the time that CE399 was found on the stretcher by Tomlinson and at the time Todd scratched his initials in CE399
5. CE399 was fired at some time by Oswald's MC
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.
7. Any theory that someone planted CE399 on Connally's stretcher requires: i). that conspirators anticipated a need to make it appear that Oswald's gun had been used to fire the shots that struck the limo when it hadn't ii). that conspirators knew what the bullets in the car showed or did not show and iii) that the wounds of the men in the car would be consistent with a whole bullet being found on Connally's stretcher iv) that the conspirators knew that CE399 would be discovered at Parkland by planting it on a stretcher  v) that the purpose of planting CE399 was so important that it far outweighed the risk of the conspiracy being discovered.
8. 7. makes no sense.

[Martin Weidmann]

The evidence that it was fired at the motorcade consists of the following:

1. three shots were fired at the motorcade
2. a bullet was found on a stretcher at Parkland by Tomlinson on the afternoon of 22/11/63 and passed along to Todd who put his initials on it.
3. the fragments of bullets found in the limo amounted to less than one bullet. None of the fragments could be conclusively tied to Oswald's gun.
4. point 3. was not known by anyone at the time that CE399 was found on the stretcher by Tomlinson and at the time Todd scratched his initials in CE399
5. CE399 was fired at some time by Oswald's MC
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.
7. Any theory that someone planted CE399 on Connally's stretcher requires: i). that conspirators anticipated a need to make it appear that Oswald's gun had been used to fire the shots that struck the limo when it hadn't ii). that conspirators knew what the bullets in the car showed or did not show and iii) that the wounds of the men in the car would be consistent with a whole bullet being found on Connally's stretcher iv) that the conspirators knew that CE399 would be discovered at Parkland by planting it on a stretcher  v) that the purpose of planting CE399 was so important that it far outweighed the risk of the conspiracy being discovered.
8. 7. makes no sense.

6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.

Or, alternatively, CE399 was (just like the Walker bullet) part of an FBI scheme to wrap a very weak case around Oswald very quickly?

[Andrew Mason]

6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.

Or, alternatively, CE399 was (just like the Walker bullet) part of an FBI scheme to wrap a very weak case around Oswald very quickly?

There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle, recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.  So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination. This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK. 

[Martin Weidmann]

There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle, recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.  So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination. This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle,

No need? on Friday night both the bullet found at Parkland as well as the MC rifle were in Washington.

recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.

Who said the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? You have zero evidence for that! All you can show is that a bullet was passed on by four men. What you can not (and will never ever be able to) show is that it was CE399. For all anybody knows the bullet found at Parkland could just have been an unrelated bullet that came in handy.

So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination.

Wrong. They could have easily substituted the bullet from Parkland for one fired by the MC rifle at the FBI lab.

This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

No it doesn't. You just don't want to consider the possibility of a substitution at the FBI lab.

[Walt Cakebread]

There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle,

No need? on Friday night both the bullet found at Parkland as well as the MC rifle were in Washington.

recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.

Who said the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? You have zero evidence for that! All you can show is that a bullet was passed on by four men. What you can not (and will never ever be able to) show is that it was CE399. For all anybody knows the bullet found at Parkland could just have been an unrelated bullet that came in handy.

So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination.

Wrong. They could have easily substituted the bullet from Parkland for one fired by the MC rifle at the FBI lab.

This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

No it doesn't. You just don't want to consider the possibility of a substitution at the FBI lab.

Keep in mind that the DPD were reporting that they had a 7.65 Mauser  as the suspects rifle.    They sure as hell would have wanted to make certain that the caliber of the Parkland bullet matched the suspect's rifle......

[Andrew Mason]

There was no opportunity from the time the rifle was discovered in the SN for anyone to fire a bullet with the C2766 rifle,

No need? on Friday night both the bullet found at Parkland as well as the MC rifle were in Washington.

recover the full bullet and plant it at Parkland before it was discovered by Tomlinson.

Who said the bullet now in evidence as CE399 was ever at Parkland Hospital? You have zero evidence for that! All you can show is that a bullet was passed on by four men. What you can not (and will never ever be able to) show is that it was CE399. For all anybody knows the bullet found at Parkland could just have been an unrelated bullet that came in handy.

So if the FBI planted it, they had it before the assassination.

Wrong. They could have easily substituted the bullet from Parkland for one fired by the MC rifle at the FBI lab.

This would make them part of the conspiracy to murder JFK.

No it doesn't. You just don't want to consider the possibility of a substitution at the FBI lab.

So not only did Todd lie, but also Robert Frazier and others at the FBI lab. And they lied and put themselves in a position where they would stand to lose their job and be charged criminally for what reason? Because they knew that the real bullet didn't match Oswald's MC? Why would they want to frame Oswald if his gun had not fired at the limo? It makes absolutely no sense.  It is no wonder there is absolutely no evidence to support such fanciful idea.

[Jerry Freeman]

The evidence that it was fired at the motorcade consists of the following:

1. three shots were fired at the motorcade
                 Three shots were reported. Does not prove 399 was one of them.
2. a bullet was found on a stretcher at Parkland by Tomlinson on the afternoon of 22/11/63 and passed along to Todd who put his initials on it.
                   No proof really, that 399 was fired at the motorcade.
3. the fragments of bullets found in the limo amounted to less than one bullet. None of the fragments could be conclusively tied to Oswald's gun.
                 And they certainly tried to do that.
4. point 3. was not known by anyone at the time that CE399 was found on the stretcher by Tomlinson and at the time Todd scratched his initials in CE399
                    Does not prove anything
5. CE399 was fired at some time by Oswald's MC
                        Yes at some time
6. the above leaves two possibilities: a) CE399 was planted by a conspirator b) CE399 was one of three bullets fired at the time of the assassination.
                    A bullet fired and striking flesh and bone would have been deformed and therefore difficult to link to the rifle                       
7. Any theory that someone planted CE399 on Connally's stretcher requires: i). that conspirators anticipated a need to make it appear that Oswald's gun had been used to fire the shots that struck the limo when it hadn't ii). that conspirators knew what the bullets in the car showed or did not show and iii) that the wounds of the men in the car would be consistent with a whole bullet being found on Connally's stretcher iv) that the conspirators knew that CE399 would be discovered at Parkland by planting it on a stretcher  v) that the purpose of planting CE399 was so important that it far outweighed the risk of the conspiracy being discovered.
8. 7. makes no sense.
          Regarding 7 v) It was assured that a conspiracy would not be discovered. The new president, FBI director, Dallas district attorney and other city authorities would assure this.

I do not understand why at this point it is so difficult to accept this.