Did Poe Mark The Shells?

[Martin Weidmann]

It's 55 years out. Dhority and Doughty are both deceased. We don't have documents signed by those two officials in which they confirm their identification of the shells. They may exist somewhere. Who knows? But it would make no difference to some CTs if they did exist. How could we be sure that those really were their signatures? "Handwriting 'analysis' is biased and unscientific". Don't you know?

Just amazing. When you are done whining, shall we get back to the actual evidence and have a look at what Dhority told the WC in his testimony?

Mr. DHORITY. Well, there were quite a few people in the house there. but we were told to contact Virginia Davis and her sister, Jeanette Davis.
Mr. BALL. And, did you talk to them?
Mr. DHORITY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did they give you anything?
Mr. DHORITY. Virginia gave me a .38 hull.
Mr. BALL. Did she tell you where she got it?
Mr. DHORITY. I believe that she said that she found it in her front yard, as well as I remember.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. DHORITY. We carried them down to the police department and took affidavits off of them and they went to the lineup.

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Mr. BALL. Now, what did you do with the empty hull that was given to you, that Virginia gave you?
Mr. DHORITY. I gave it to Lieutenant Day in the crime lab.
Mr. BALL. Do you know whether or not Virginia or Jeanette Davis found an empty shell--did she tell you she found an empty shell--Jeanette Davis?
Mr. DHORITY. I don't recall--it seems like she told me she had found one earlier and gave it to the police out there, as well as I remember.
Mr. BALL. Gave it to the police that day?
Mr. DHORITY. Yes; I believe so.

What's not there, of course is that Dhority, at any time identified the shell he had received from Virginia Davis and passed on to Lt Day.

It seems nobody needs to prove Dhority wrong as he never identified the shell in the first place......

As for Doughty it's even worse as there is no record at all of his interaction with the Davis sisters.

So, what was the proof again that the shells now in evidence are indeed the ones Dhority and Doughty received from the Davis sisters?

[Walt Cakebread]

Just amazing. When you are done whining, shall we get back to the actual evidence and have a look at what Dhority told the WC in his testimony?

Mr. DHORITY. Well, there were quite a few people in the house there. but we were told to contact Virginia Davis and her sister, Jeanette Davis.
Mr. BALL. And, did you talk to them?
Mr. DHORITY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did they give you anything?
Mr. DHORITY. Virginia gave me a .38 hull.
Mr. BALL. Did she tell you where she got it?
Mr. DHORITY. I believe that she said that she found it in her front yard, as well as I remember.
Mr. BALL. What did you do after that?
Mr. DHORITY. We carried them down to the police department and took affidavits off of them and they went to the lineup.

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Mr. BALL. Now, what did you do with the empty hull that was given to you, that Virginia gave you?
Mr. DHORITY. I gave it to Lieutenant Day in the crime lab.
Mr. BALL. Do you know whether or not Virginia or Jeanette Davis found an empty shell--did she tell you she found an empty shell--Jeanette Davis?
Mr. DHORITY. I don't recall--it seems like she told me she had found one earlier and gave it to the police out there, as well as I remember.
Mr. BALL. Gave it to the police that day?
Mr. DHORITY. Yes; I believe so.

What's not there, of course is that Dhority, at any time identified the shell he had received from Virginia Davis and passed on to Lt Day.

It seems nobody needs to prove Dhority wrong as he never identified the shell in the first place......

As for Doughty it's even worse as there is no record at all of his interaction with the Davis sisters.

So, what was the proof again that the shells now in evidence are indeed the ones Dhority and Doughty received from the Davis sisters?

When FBI Agent Cortland Cunningham testified before the WC he demonstrated how the spent shells were extracted from the 38 caliber S&W revolver. He pushed the cylinder to the left and out of the revolver frame and then pushed the extractor rod to the rear and pushed all of the spent shells out in one action.  All of the spent shells were in his hand. (and a lot of burned gunpowder was also in his hand)

The man who shot Tippit walked away removing ONE SHELL AT A TIME.... The shells that were recovered were found widely scattered .   It should be obvious to any intelligent and rational person that the man who shot Tippit was NOT using a S&W revolver.

HOWEVER ...The "experts" have sworn that the spent shells WERE FIRED IN THE S&W that was allegedly taken from Lee Oswald in the theater.  SO, since the "experts" have verified that the spent shells were fired in the S&W and Tippit's killer was NOT using a S&W .....Then WHEN were these shells fired in that S&W???

P.S....  Lee Oswald's hand would have been liberally coated with burned gunpowder if he had fired the S&W revolver that was allegedly in his belt at the theater.

[John Iacoletti]

The fact is.... Nobody has proved that the shells in evidence were NOT the shells collected at the scene.

So what?  The onus is on the person claiming that a particular piece of evidence is valid to demonstrate its validity.  Why is it that there are provenance problems with every piece of purported evidence in this case?

[John Iacoletti]

That isn't how it works though. But the fact is that the shells in evidence are the shells that were collected at the scene.

Believing that on faith and demonstrating that it's actually true are two different things.

It has been established beyond any reasonable doubt. Those who refuse to accept that fact are simply not reasonable people and it's pointless to try to reason with them.

Otherwise known as proof by repeated assertion of the claim.

[John Iacoletti]

When you claim it with so much certainty, I am beginning to think that I might have missed something. Please explain how it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that the shells now in evidence are the same ones that were collected at the scene.

Because "cop said so" is enough for some people to believe something "beyond any reasonable doubt".  Which ignores the many examples throughout history of police misconduct.

[John Iacoletti]

That's exactly right.  The case has been very clearly laid out as to how the shells are authentic, a point that these two clowns fail to grasp.  Both Dhority and Doughty would testify that the shells in evidence are the shells turned over to them by each of the Davis sisters.  Now it is up to the kooks to prove Dhority and Doughty wrong.

Given that neither Doughty or Dhority retrieved any shells from the scene, I'm not sure what you think that proves.

[Tim Nickerson]

When FBI Agent Cortland Cunningham testified before the WC he demonstrated how the spent shells were extracted from the 38 caliber S&W revolver. He pushed the cylinder to the left and out of the revolver frame and then pushed the extractor rod to the rear and pushed all of the spent shells out in one action.  All of the spent shells were in his hand. (and a lot of burned gunpowder was also in his hand)

The man who shot Tippit walked away removing ONE SHELL AT A TIME.... The shells that were recovered were found widely scattered .   It should be obvious to any intelligent and rational person that the man who shot Tippit was NOT using a S&W revolver.

HOWEVER ...The "experts" have sworn that the spent shells WERE FIRED IN THE S&W that was allegedly taken from Lee Oswald in the theater.  SO, since the "experts" have verified that the spent shells were fired in the S&W and Tippit's killer was NOT using a S&W .....Then WHEN were these shells fired in that S&W???

P.S....  Lee Oswald's hand would have been liberally coated with burned gunpowder if he had fired the S&W revolver that was allegedly in his belt at the theater.

Oswald was removing the shells manually because one of them had split, preventing the removal of them all at once by the extractor.

Shell casings do not get that hot. Certainly not hot enough to prevent their being removed without burning one's hand.

[Bill Brown]

Given that neither Doughty or Dhority retrieved any shells from the scene, I'm not sure what you think that proves.

That's debatable, depending on whether you want to play word games.

The case has been very clearly laid out as to how the shells are authentic, a point that these two clowns fail to grasp.  Both Dhority and Doughty would testify that the shells in evidence are the shells turned over to them by each of the Davis sisters.