How long does it take to alter hundreds of frames of film?

[Ray Mitcham]

Another example of CTers entertaining multiple and sometimes mutually exclusive realities.  In some cases, they rely upon the Z-film as proof of a conspiracy (e.g. "back and to the the left").  In others, that the film is faked or altered to avoid showing evidence of a conspiracy.  The Alamo defense of all CTer claims ultimately boils down to suggesting that all evidence is faked or the product of intentional lies.  The Catch-22:  Any evidence of Oswald's guilt is suspect and dismissed for that reason alone.

Just tell us why the film we see is different to the one Rather saw.  (And don't say "prove they are different" because Rather saw the limo turn the corner into Elm Street,) or is he just mistaken, lying or crazy?

[Chris Davidson]

The only car close enough to the limo to fulfill Rather's description.

[Jerry Organ]

The only car close enough to the limo to fulfill Rather's description.

... And the white car didn't appear in the Zapruder film.

But Rather -- who claimed to be to the west of the Underpass -- could have seen the white car ahead of the limousine when the two cars were east of and beneath the Underpass.


The limousine moved increasingly ahead of the white car once westward of the Underpass.

[Chris Davidson]

Except his reference is to the film he just watched, not what was viewed from where he was standing.

The white lead car most likely appeared in the same footage as the limo turn onto Elm St, which was eventually excised.

[Jerry Organ]

Except his reference is to the film he just watched, not what was viewed from where he was standing.

The white lead car most likely appeared in the same footage as the limo turn onto Elm St, which was eventually excised.

You're assuming that Rather is limiting his description to what the film shows.

If I was Dan Rather and a firsthand witness to some part of the event, I would be inclined to incorporate it.

Now if you had someone just after the assassination describing the film who had no firsthand impression of the motorcade arrangement, that would more likely mean he's describing things in the film not seen later on.

[Jack Trojan]

I already replied to this thread but it got wiped out by the LNers because I was getting too close to home.   

Chris Davidson is on the right track. There are only 2 questions needed to be answered to resolve this one:

1) Where is the "original" Z-film? Life got a COPY.
2) Why was the film "edited"?

There were at least 2 splices in the film, which the FBI must have created and they removed an entire section of the turn onto Elm. Zapruder said he never recalled letting his finger off the trigger at any time after he started filming. So why was this footage removed? And why are there splices in the film? And most importantly, where is the original film and why did the FBI keep it?

Any editing done to the film to remove contradictions to the LN scenario would have been done with an optical printer like they used for practically all movies at the time for FX. This would include:

1) Speeding the limo up by removing frames before and after the head shot. Easy peasy.
2) Blackening the back of JFK's head for a few dozen frames. Piece of cake.
3) Cut out the turn onto Elm where the limo barely navigated the turn. Just another splice, which they botched.

So to ans the OP of how long does it take to alter hundreds of frames of film is...a few hours max. Which is exactly what they did. Otherwise, why did they modify it at all?

[Joe Elliott]

Any editing done to the film to remove contradictions to the LN scenario would have been done with an optical printer like they used for practically all movies at the time for FX. This would include:

1) Speeding the limo up by removing frames before and after the head shot. Easy peasy.

Jack does not understand simple Physics.

The limousine can only slow down so much. It can only lose about 0.5 foot per second per frame.

So, a limousine is moving at 10 feet per second. It advances half a foot down the street from frame to frame.

Let?s take a theoretical example:

Frame 100: It starts to brake as much as possible
               ; I known, I chose 100 to make the math as simple as possible.
               ; And 20 Zapruder frames per second to, again, make the math as simple as possible.

Frames 100-120: It slows from 10 feet per second to zero feet per second.
               ; About half as fast as it could slow down (decelerate)

Frame 120: The limousine is stopped 5 feet further down the street from Frame 100.

Frames 120-140: Limousine stays stopped for one second.

Frames 140-160: Limousine accelerates back to 10 feet per second.

              ; The maximum acceleration would be something like this, at best.

Frame 160: The limousine is back at 10 feet per second, now 5 feet further down the street from Frame 120.


Remove frames 100 through 160? Removing the slowdown and stop? Easy peasy?

Except for one problem. The limousine would suddenly appear to leap 10 feet down the street between the now two consecutive frames.

And also, the problem that the occupants in the limousine, and the moving spectators, would also appear to suddenly move at an impossible speed.



If:

 limousines could suddenly start and stop. Accelerate and Decelerate at 6 G?s (as opposed to the more realistic 0.3 G?s)

and:

all people in the limousine and spectators froze and did not move a muscle while the limousine was stopped.

Then:

Yes, Jack?s method would work fine. There are no frames to remove during the deceleration and acceleration, because this was down instantly. Just remove the frames while the limousine was suddenly stopped. Easy peasy.

But this would not work in the real world.

[Bill Chapman]

1) How could Kennedy's hand be at the side of his head (as Rather reports) when I see both his hands rise up sharply from just below his chest as he emerges from behind the sign. Oh, wait... the Zfilm was faked. Right?

2) Did Connally say anything about being shot in the chest as he turned to the back (according to Rather) or did he say he felt like someone had punched him in the back?