How long does it take to alter hundreds of frames of film?

[Joe Elliott]

Seems the missile didn't actually explode.

The Head Shot
Citation Ken Rahn

[EXCERPTS]

(...)

    High-velocity missile wounds of the head are especially destructive because of formation of a temporary cavity within the cranial cavity. the brain is enclosed by the skull, a closed rigid structure that can relieve pressure only by "bursting."

     Thus, high-velocity missile wounds of the head tend to produce bursting injuries. That these bursting injuries are the result of temporary cavity formation can be demonstrated by shooting through empty skulls. A high-velocity bullet fired through an empty skull produces small entrance and exit holes with no fractures. The same missile fired through a skull containing brain causes extensive fracturing and bursting injuries.

(...)

Yes. This is correct. The WCC/MC, FMJ bullet does not explode. It only broke into 3 major fragments. But it does cause a bursting wound (when it travels through a skull at near muzzle velocity). Larry Sturdivan referred to this as an ?explosive wound?. The head basically explodes, expelling pieces of bone, brain tissue and blood away from the head. But the bullet itself never explodes.

[Jack Trojan]

Of course you do.

No, I don't.

Robert Frazier, Larry Sturdivan, Luke Haag and Michael Haag all support the theory that JFK was shot by non-explosive bullets, made by the Western Cartridge Company. Larry Sturdivan wrote a book about the ballistic science of the JFK assassination, ?The JFK Myths?.

Can I dig up a quote that they stated the Western Cartridge Company bullets (WCC/MC) were not explosive bullets? I don?t think so. Nor can I dig up a quote saying the bullets were not made mostly from arsenic (to act as a poison?), or not made of gold, or not made of silver (A wolf? Maybe, but not a werewolf). But they all support the notion that these bullets were ordinary WCC/MC bullets which were not explosive bullets.

If you are going to cite them then quote their arguments that support your claims and keep in mind that their opinions aren't facts. You don't expect me to read their books, do you?

You are being disingenuous to imply that, perhaps, one or more of these experts do support the notion of an explosive bullet causing the wounds to JFK.

What I need is the opinion from an expert that knows what they are talking about. I'll know one when I see one. An expert needs to come forward and explain whether the copper powder in a frangible bullet emits light after exploding and whether the explosion lasts >1/8th of a second. Have any of your experts explored that? Then cite their arguments and I will gladly eat crow.

I am no medical expert but it looks like I am seeing sunlight reflecting off of the interior of the scalp. I would guess it is covered in blood and the sunlight if reflecting off of the blood.

The other comparable bright spot is the patch of sunlight reflecting off of Connally's forehead, which is very specific. If Connally had moved his head the lit spot would disappear. What we see with JFK was the lit spot move with him as he reacted to the shot. That indicates this was not sunlight and that brain matter would not show up that bright on film. So what else then?

Chemical explosions are not powerful enough to produce a plasma. Nuclear explosions can but not chemical explosions. Lightning can produce plasma, but it requires an enormous cloud and needs to generate temperatures of 28,000 Kelvin to do so. No chemical explosion is powerful enough to do this.

And even the plasma produced by a lightning strike typically only lasts 10 to 100 milliseconds, covering perhaps 3 Zapruder frames at most. And I can?t believe that a small explosive bullet could produce plasma at all, let alone for as long as the plasma produced by a powerful lightning strike.

I'm not an expert in chemical explosions, I merely ask the question, does the copper powder that explodes in a frangible bullet produce light and if so, for how long?

My one and only question is:

Can you site a respectable source that says an explosive bullet, fired from a rifle, produces plasma? [

The most popular gun in history that fires frangible bullets is called the "Fireball". Fire is plasma. Does igniting copper powder produce plasma? Looks like it to me. Let me know what your experts think.

[Mike Orr]

In a video interview by Doug Horne, Dino Brugioni says that he and his team examined the 8 mm Zapruder film of the John F. Kennedy assassination the evening of Saturday 23 November 1963 and into the morning of Sunday 24 November 1963, when he was the weekend duty officer at the CIA's National Photographic Interpretation Center (NPIC). Dino and his team projected the film for two members of the Secret Service several times, and they indicated which frames they wanted prints made from, which in turn should be included on the briefing boards. Dino indicated in the interview that he was positive that they had the original film, and that when they projected it for the two members of the Secret Service, it was the first time they had viewed the film. After creating the required duplicate negatives from the desired frames, the film was returned to the two members of the Secret Service, and that approximately 3 AM they left the NPIC facility. He and his team then made up two identical sets of Briefing boards, one set for CIA Director John McCone and one for the Secret Service. Each set was consisted of two boards, hinged in the middle, and contained between 12 and 15 prints of frames from the film, with the frame number indicated on the board. Mr. Brugioni prepared identical one sheet of notes that that accompanied each set of Briefing Boards , which included the name of each person who had seen the film and worked on the production of the prints and the Briefing Boards. When the work was complete , Dino Brugioni reviewed the Briefing Boards and notes with his superior, Arthur Lundahl, whom he had called and requested to come to the facility. The Briefing Boards and notes were then turned over to Arthur Lundahl. Brugioni said he was not aware of a "Second examination of the film at NPIC the night of Sunday 24 November and the early morning of Monday 25 November, by a completely different team. Apparently the team that worked on the 2nd examination was given "16 mm" film and made up another, and possibly larger , series of frame prints, and that another set of briefing boards was also created. Mr. Brugioni thought the Zapruder film in the National Archives today, and available to the public, has been altered from the version of the film he saw and worked with on November 23-24. The version he recalls had one or more frames than the version now available to the public. Additionally, he is adamant that the set of briefing boards available to the public in the National Archives is not the set that he and his team produced on November 23-24, 1963 . Brugioni and his team had their prints on 2 Briefing Boards and the Briefing Boards at the National Archives consist of " 4 " Briefing Boards . Brugioni also said that the blood spray from Kennedy's head was 3 to 4 feet into the air and lasted several more frames . Brugioni said there was no way that the blood spray would have only been contained on frame 313.

[Allan Fritzke]

Life magazine printed 30 frames from the Zapruder film a week later in the 29th of November 1963 issue and considering the time it took to get the film and then the time it takes to organise, write, format, print and then get the magazine distributed across the country left the amount of time the conspirators had to do any alteration to be a couple of days at most.

   

                               

In the following gif the Life magazine photos have superimposed over the original Zapruder Film and all the way through the most important events we get a perfect match to every image which means that to add a new element across a number of frames then there will be a knock on effect to these surrounding frames. The only frames we don't see are the actual headshot and the resulting back and to the left but if you had the time wouldn't these frames be the ones you would alter? Doh!

 

So in conclusion these Life Magazine photos published a week later are all the proof anyone needs to show no Zapruder fakery.
But in addition to this powerful evidence there is;

perfect synchronization between the Muchmore/Nix and the Zapruder films



the impossible to fake ghost image in the sprocket area is an accurate representation of images captured with Zapruder's type of camera



and upon microscopic examination the Zapruder film shows the correct and overall consistent grain level for the relevant Kodak film stock.






JohnM

So, what is your point?  You have just pointed out in your discussion that the only shots that aren't shown are actually the important ones? Doh! You don't need to alter hundreds of frames - that is absurd!

Wouldn't the missing ones be the ones to alter?  Absolutely.  That is why they aren't shown.  The shown frames are uninteresting and not altered!

Frame Z313/Z314 don't contain anything "except paint" and they don't show those anyway.   The rest in the sequence after those are of utmost importance to show the actual sequence of events and the kill shots.   I cover the logic of this statement that I am making with the following list of 11 points.  I cover why the missing pictures are the most important ones and will never give a conflict with those that were shown.   There never will be a conflict as those AP photos shown are the "non-issue" undoctored ones anyway!   You could also advance the argument that they aren't going to use them all anyway for their paper and that is why none of those ever showed up!

Look at the photographic evidence presented:

1)  There is absolutely no reaction by Mrs. Kennedy at Z313/314 and no jiggle or reaction in Zapruder's camera.   Could you imagine being 18 inches beside a spray of blood and brain matter and what her face would look like after going through a volley like that?  She would have been blinded and would have immediately raised her hands and wiped her eyes clean so she could see.  No evidence of that whatsoever.  Policeman on bikes claimed they were hit with brain matter.  What about her?   No reaction as she continues to show concern as she did from the time of the neck shot.

2) Those 2 frames were the incriminating evidence that was used to incriminate  a dead Lee Harvey Oswald who supposedly fired his bolt action sniper rifle from the "sniper's nest"!   The first neck shot occurred at about Z224 and produced no visible damage other than the President raising his hands to his neck and slumping forward.   Then LHO takes another shot or two from the 6th floor of TSBD building at Z313.    LHO was dead so remained unquestioned, NO alibi and NO statement was taken when he went to police stations and spent considerable time there - very questionable and concerning that police would neglect to take a statement!    A very convenient couple of picture with "blood plume"  have gun, gun casings, ownership papers and lead bullets. That  makes a conviction  conviction de facto.   Never mind he had no motive - unless he did it for his handlers.

3) Given that no one wants to testify that  JFK's head moved back about a foot and that he raised his arm in a defensive maneuver after this supposed shot - should lead you to question once more that there is a contradiction in visual evidence.   If you put yourself in JFK's shoes and you actually saw the shooter at the front of the car, imagine what your reaction would be?    The testimony of James Altgens, an AP reporter, (issued into the WC report about 6 months after the shooting), failed to see this obvious movement.   His testimony reported that he was about 15 feet away at the time of the fatal shot but he failed to snap the shutter!   He did get a picture of the bacj if the limousine a little farther down though which was headlined in many newspapers across the world.    That particular picture which an astute AP News Reporter should have taken has never shown up and disappeared.    What he did note in his testimony 6 months later was that there was a slight frontal movement of Kennedy's head.  Obviously this is collaborating evidence to suggest  a bullet coming from behind pushing the head forward!!!   He failed to note the rather obvious movement back and the raising of the arm - which you  obviously can't miss when you look at the Zapruder's film.  There has been no attempt by anyone to justify the head or arm movement.   It was just considered a nerve reaction to having the "massive" head injury at Z313.

4) The "fireball" appearing on JFK's head quickly disappears and leaves a white face behind.  Again the coloring of the "fireball" is fairly close to Mrs. Kennedy's dress and overlaps (blending colors) with an added enhancement of catching the "light of course".   All evidence of "fireball" is removed by Z321.
   
5) At Z322,  there is light piercing through the windshield which I have suggested is a bullet which shatters glass and issues a spray seen in the sunlight.  The secret service man is below the dash or beside  this glass shatter.  Certainly tracing his head movement, he looks like he was in the motion of ducking in the previous frames.  The "projectile" appears to be low and doesn't strike Kennedy in the face as the face continues to be white and uninjured, although the arm drops down and becomes lifeless.

6)  At Z329,  a mere 1/2 a second later than this, you see a head shot that you just can't miss.   A huge explosion in the windshield and large shatter in the light and a very large "red fireball" / blur at a position where the President's "white face and head" were in the frames just prior.

7)  Zapruder was very close and it may have just shocked him and he shook his camera and that is why it became blurred at that instant.

Look closely at Z335 and you can see Jacqueline's eyes grow as big as saucers.  We still don't see any evidence of anything in her face or eyes which suggests that it was a frontal shot with the debris field behind the vehicle, not the front.  Closely examining this photograph and zooming in on JFK's head it appears that they clearly "wiped off" the front of his head and replaced it with her dress with some blending.
 
9)   Anyone that looks at that frame and can't see that it was doctored is really naive and doesn't want to know the truth when it is starring them right in the face!  It is an abrupt interface.  There is a distinct line between face and no face!

10)  Note also that the white marker in the grass lines up very nicely with Z322 and Z329 - just a coincidence of course that someone left that in the grass for the driver to look at for cue-ing! 

11) Blow this evidence of as farcical and you might as well continue to be a LNer.  It might help to laugh a bit at how inconceivable this cockamamie explanation is!   More than one shooter - absolutely!  Have  a lone gunman bear it alone - absolutely! He was just simply an expert marine marksman and a nut case to boot!

[Royell Storing]

So, what is your point?  You have just pointed out in your discussion that the only shots that aren't shown are actually the important ones? Doh! You don't need to alter hundreds of frames - that is absurd!

Wouldn't the missing ones be the ones to alter?  Absolutely.  That is why they aren't shown.  The shown frames are uninteresting and not altered!

Frame Z313/Z314 don't contain anything "except paint" and they don't show those anyway.   The rest in the sequence after those are of utmost importance to show the actual sequence of events and the kill shots.   I cover the logic of this statement that I am making with the following list of 11 points.  I cover why the missing pictures are the most important ones and will never give a conflict with those that were shown.   There never will be a conflict as those AP photos shown are the "non-issue" undoctored ones anyway!   You could also advance the argument that they aren't going to use them all anyway for their paper and that is why none of those ever showed up!

Look at the photographic evidence presented:

1)  There is absolutely no reaction by Mrs. Kennedy at Z313/314 and no jiggle or reaction in Zapruder's camera.   Could you imagine being 18 inches beside a spray of blood and brain matter and what her face would look like after going through a volley like that?  She would have been blinded and would have immediately raised her hands and wiped her eyes clean so she could see.  No evidence of that whatsoever.  Policeman on bikes claimed they were hit with brain matter.  What about her?   No reaction as she continues to show concern as she did from the time of the neck shot.

2) Those 2 frames were the incriminating evidence that was used to incriminate  a dead Lee Harvey Oswald who supposedly fired his bolt action sniper rifle from the "sniper's nest"!   The first neck shot occurred at about Z224 and produced no visible damage other than the President raising his hands to his neck and slumping forward.   Then LHO takes another shot or two from the 6th floor of TSBD building at Z313.    LHO was dead so remained unquestioned, NO alibi and NO statement was taken when he went to police stations and spent considerable time there - very questionable and concerning that police would neglect to take a statement!    A very convenient couple of picture with "blood plume"  have gun, gun casings, ownership papers and lead bullets. That  makes a conviction  conviction de facto.   Never mind he had no motive - unless he did it for his handlers.

3) Given that no one wants to testify that  JFK's head moved back about a foot and that he raised his arm in a defensive maneuver after this supposed shot - should lead you to question once more that there is a contradiction in visual evidence.   If you put yourself in JFK's shoes and you actually saw the shooter at the front of the car, imagine what your reaction would be?    The testimony of James Altgens, an AP reporter, (issued into the WC report about 6 months after the shooting), failed to see this obvious movement.   His testimony reported that he was about 15 feet away at the time of the fatal shot but he failed to snap the shutter!   He did get a picture of the bacj if the limousine a little farther down though which was headlined in many newspapers across the world.    That particular picture which an astute AP News Reporter should have taken has never shown up and disappeared.    What he did note in his testimony 6 months later was that there was a slight frontal movement of Kennedy's head.  Obviously this is collaborating evidence to suggest  a bullet coming from behind pushing the head forward!!!   He failed to note the rather obvious movement back and the raising of the arm - which you  obviously can't miss when you look at the Zapruder's film.  There has been no attempt by anyone to justify the head or arm movement.   It was just considered a nerve reaction to having the "massive" head injury at Z313.

4) The "fireball" appearing on JFK's head quickly disappears and leaves a white face behind.  Again the coloring of the "fireball" is fairly close to Mrs. Kennedy's dress and overlaps (blending colors) with an added enhancement of catching the "light of course".   All evidence of "fireball" is removed by Z321.
   
5) At Z322,  there is light piercing through the windshield which I have suggested is a bullet which shatters glass and issues a spray seen in the sunlight.  The secret service man is below the dash or beside  this glass shatter.  Certainly tracing his head movement, he looks like he was in the motion of ducking in the previous frames.  The "projectile" appears to be low and doesn't strike Kennedy in the face as the face continues to be white and uninjured, although the arm drops down and becomes lifeless.

6)  At Z329,  a mere 1/2 a second later than this, you see a head shot that you just can't miss.   A huge explosion in the windshield and large shatter in the light and a very large "red fireball" / blur at a position where the President's "white face and head" were in the frames just prior.

7)  Zapruder was very close and it may have just shocked him and he shook his camera and that is why it became blurred at that instant.

Look closely at Z335 and you can see Jacqueline's eyes grow as big as saucers.  We still don't see any evidence of anything in her face or eyes which suggests that it was a frontal shot with the debris field behind the vehicle, not the front.  Closely examining this photograph and zooming in on JFK's head it appears that they clearly "wiped off" the front of his head and replaced it with her dress with some blending.
 
9)   Anyone that looks at that frame and can't see that it was doctored is really naive and doesn't want to know the truth when it is starring them right in the face!  It is an abrupt interface.  There is a distinct line between face and no face!

10)  Note also that the white marker in the grass lines up very nicely with Z322 and Z329 - just a coincidence of course that someone left that in the grass for the driver to look at for cue-ing! 

11) Blow this evidence of as farcical and you might as well continue to be a LNer.  It might help to laugh a bit at how inconceivable this cockamamie explanation is!   More than one shooter - absolutely!  Have  a lone gunman bear it alone - absolutely! He was just simply an expert marine marksman and a nut case to boot!

           The Kill Shot Explosion which resulted in blood and brain matter going Far Forward onto/across the hood of the JFK Limo, Backward onto Motorcycle Officer Hargis riding on the (L) rear of the JFK Limo, as well as all over ASAIC Kellerman and SA Greer in the front seat & the Connally's riding in the jump seats/mid Limo, should have also resulted in Jackie's face displaying at least traces of this same blood and brain matter. She was in front of and within inches of JFK's head/face at the time of the Kill Shot Explosion. Yet, as we see on the Current Zapruder Film, there are No Traces of any blood and or brain matter on her face following the Kill Shot. Starting with the start/stop/start Gap in the Current Zapruder Film, it continues to Disprove its' authenticity. 

[Allan Fritzke]

           The Kill Shot Explosion which resulted in blood and brain matter going Far Forward onto/across the hood of the JFK Limo, Backward onto Motorcycle Officer Hargis riding on the (L) rear of the JFK Limo, as well as all over ASAIC Kellerman and SA Greer in the front seat & the Connally's riding in the jump seats/mid Limo, should have also resulted in Jackie's face displaying at least traces of this same blood and brain matter. She was in front of and within inches of JFK's head/face at the time of the Kill Shot Explosion. Yet, as we see on the Current Zapruder Film, there are No Traces of any blood and or brain matter on her face following the Kill Shot. Starting with the start/stop/start Gap in the Current Zapruder Film, it continues to Disprove its' authenticity.

It does not disprove its' authenticity, it disproves the carefully scripted witnesses statements involved in the plot/scheme to assassinate the President.       You have just fallen into my hands.   Really, the FBI, CIA and Secret Service find themselves caught between a rock and a hard place.  You can't have the cake and eat it too!     They need to discredit the rest of the film but keep Z313/314 as they really need that for de facto evidence to complete the framing of a lone dead gunman LHO who did it all!

So in your opinion, you can't use the Z313/Z314 frames as they are not authentic.     How do you convict LHO?  These frames are produced as the infallible evidence used to convict LHO of a crime he didn't commit.    I would not go so far to say that he wasn't somehow involved, but I don't think he realized he was going to be killed for his sins in the plot!   We know that he must have had serious ties to his handlers as he had trips to Russia and Cuba that must have been funded by someone!    Those 2 slides collaborate the evidence of finding a sniper rifle in the sniper's nest in TSBD building!   A few frames were released at the time showing this to the WC but the bulk of the  film wasn't released for 10 years into the public domain.    The public cried for some pictures so some had to come out!   Why do you suppose this was done?    By saying what you have stated in your statement, you are admitting someone had wrongfully used this film as the concrete evidence to convict LHO.     What was the purpose of not letting the American Public see this film at the time?    The cameraman who took the pictures of the TBSD window, bus, theater and others entered as evidence is just too coincidental to have been real.   He was never even interviewed but disappeared from the scene!

You have just admitted to a real conspiracy - whatever statement you make debating its authenticity points the fingers to those who held this film for many years and chose not to let people see it in its entirety!   Who had a "copy" of it?  How many were made and how was it kept from being "leaked" out?

I will admit its authenticity must be questioned because of the modifications made to it.   That is why you have to ask who would want to modify and why was that necessary?   Z313, Z314 and look at Z335 where you see part of the President's head "erased" and blended in by a blouse.  You can't say the film wasn't modified.   Anyone that says that is lying!   As you said, overwhelming evidence that Jacqueline face and eyes were not covered in brain matter, blood spatter from the Z313/Z314 supposed "plume shots with explosive bullets is not there.    The reason it wasn't there is because it didn't happen that way!   If you look at the film without looking at individual slides, you will miss the modifications made.   Playing the film back, you don't see any problems with the storyline as it happens so fast!   Nelly Connally even goes so far to say that Jacqueline Kennedy had the President's brain in her hands if you watch her interview!     This film was modified.  If you admit that, you have to question why was it necessary if you are seeking the truth and why a coverup was necessary?

[Bill Chapman]

Name me just one ballistic expert who disagrees with this?

WTF are you talking about?

Just use some common sense and logic, which you are struggling with to refute me.

Blow-outs yes, explosions no.

yadayadayada

Why wasn't the sunlight reflecting off of ANYTHING else on JFK? Sorry, this was NOT sunlight.

If you say so. What ballistic expert agrees with you? Waiting...

Or the frangible bullet blows out a hole in the side of JFK's head, which couldn't possibly be an exit wound if the shot came from the TSBD. Otherwise show the trajectory. Waiting...

Why wasn't the sunlight reflecting off of ANYTHING else on JFK?

> The brain matter was wet

[Royell Storing]

It does not disprove its' authenticity, it disproves the carefully scripted witnesses statements involved in the plot/scheme to assassinate the President.       You have just fallen into my hands.   Really, the FBI, CIA and Secret Service find themselves caught between a rock and a hard place.  You can't have the cake and eat it too!     They need to discredit the rest of the film but keep Z313/314 as they really need that for de facto evidence to complete the framing of a lone dead gunman LHO who did it all!

So in your opinion, you can't use the Z313/Z314 frames as they are not authentic.     How do you convict LHO?  These frames are produced as the infallible evidence used to convict LHO of a crime he didn't commit.    I would not go so far to say that he wasn't somehow involved, but I don't think he realized he was going to be killed for his sins in the plot!   We know that he must have had serious ties to his handlers as he had trips to Russia and Cuba that must have been funded by someone!    Those 2 slides collaborate the evidence of finding a sniper rifle in the sniper's nest in TSBD building!   A few frames were released at the time showing this to the WC but the bulk of the  film wasn't released for 10 years into the public domain.    The public cried for some pictures so some had to come out!   Why do you suppose this was done?    By saying what you have stated in your statement, you are admitting someone had wrongfully used this film as the concrete evidence to convict LHO.     What was the purpose of not letting the American Public see this film at the time?    The cameraman who took the pictures of the TBSD window, bus, theater and others entered as evidence is just too coincidental to have been real.   He was never even interviewed but disappeared from the scene!

You have just admitted to a real conspiracy - whatever statement you make debating its authenticity points the fingers to those who held this film for many years and chose not to let people see it in its entirety!   Who had a "copy" of it?  How many were made and how was it kept from being "leaked" out?

I will admit its authenticity must be questioned because of the modifications made to it.   That is why you have to ask who would want to modify and why was that necessary?   Z313, Z314 and look at Z335 where you see part of the President's head "erased" and blended in by a blouse.  You can't say the film wasn't modified.   Anyone that says that is lying!   As you said, overwhelming evidence that Jacqueline face and eyes were not covered in brain matter, blood spatter from the Z313/Z314 supposed "plume shots with explosive bullets is not there.    The reason it wasn't there is because it didn't happen that way!   If you look at the film without looking at individual slides, you will miss the modifications made.   Playing the film back, you don't see any problems with the storyline as it happens so fast!   Nelly Connally even goes so far to say that Jacqueline Kennedy had the President's brain in her hands if you watch her interview!     This film was modified.  If you admit that, you have to question why was it necessary if you are seeking the truth and why a coverup was necessary?

You can Not cherry pick. If the well has been poisoned, IT is poisoned. Once you agree that the Current Zapruder Film lacks credibility, you have cast doubt on the Entire film.