How long does it take to alter hundreds of frames of film?

[Steve Thompson]

I'm sure they would.  That, however, doesn't demonstrate that they show the EXACT same headshot.  Honestly, if Muchmore was the only thing you had to go on, you wouldn't even know that the guy was shot.

I'm going to have to disagree with you, as I do believe that Muchmore's film and Zapruder's film show the EXACT same headshot, and indeed the EXACT same scene - obviously taking in to account the different perspectives of the photographers. 

I can see NO inconsistencies. 
I can see 100% correlation between things like:
    *  JFK's head being positioned forward and to the left
    *  Jackie's right elbow immediately behind JFK's left shoulder
    *  Moorman's position in the background
    *  Kellerman's head pointed straight ahead

As far as your "if Muchmore was the only thing you had to go on, you wouldn't even know that the guy was shot" comment... seriously ?  There's clearly a halo of blood and brain matter ejecting from JFK's head just as is seen in Zapruder.

I think a reasonable person can conclude that both photo's are depicting the EXACT same event and the EXACT same instant.
I believe the photo comparison below is strong evidence of this.

If you believe this is open to doubt, once again - prove why your doubts are founded in fact - and not just the "we can never really know anything with 100% certainty" thing...

[Steve M. Galbraith]

But the Muchmore film doesn't show the first two shots - certainly not the critical second or the SBT. And it shows a limited part of the assassination scene.

Just because it appears to support the head shot shown in the Z-film doesn't mean it corroborates what is shown there. As in: Where did the head shot in the Muchmore film come from?  But it does - importantly - show that the blood/brain tissue didn't exit the back of the head. I don't see that in the film.

It seems to me that saying a film doesn't contradict the Zapruder film - and there's nothing I can see in Muchmore that does - is not the same as saying it corroborates it.

We still come back to the issue that if the Z film was altered then the alterationists were greatly risking being exposed by the potential revelations in other films. Did they not worry about that possibility? Is there any evidence they did?

[Steve Thompson]

It seems to me that saying a film doesn't contradict the Zapruder film - and there's nothing I can see in Muchmore that does - is not the same as saying it corroborates it.

With all due respect, Steve, I'm not just "saying that a film doesn't contradict the Zapruder film", am I ?

My previous post details four points of absolutely correlation between Z and Muchmore, doesn't it ?

[Steve M. Galbraith]

With all due respect, Steve, I'm not just "saying that a film doesn't contradict the Zapruder film", am I ?

My previous post details four points of absolutely correlation between Z and Muchmore, doesn't it ?

Sorry for not being clear: I am saying that not you.

As I added to the above, it certainly appears to show - to me - that the blood/brain/tissue from the shot exited the side/top of the head and not from the rear. Your point about the head shot itself - and the aftermath - is spot on. But I would not say it shows exactly the same thing as the Z film. As I said, it doesn't contradict what we see in that film but I - me not you - wouldn't say it corroborates it.

But for those who claim the Z film was altered to hide the material exiting from JFK's head have to answer the question: What about the Muchmore film?

[John Iacoletti]

I'm going to have to disagree with you, as I do believe that Muchmore's film and Zapruder's film show the EXACT same headshot, and indeed the EXACT same scene - obviously taking in to account the different perspectives of the photographers.

You don't see a wound of any kind in Muchmore.  How could you possibly determine that they are EXACTLY the same?

As far as your "if Muchmore was the only thing you had to go on, you wouldn't even know that the guy was shot" comment... seriously ?  There's clearly a halo of blood and brain matter ejecting from JFK's head just as is seen in Zapruder.

Clearly you jest.  How is this "clearly" a  halo of blood and brain matter?



The point is that you are overstating by claiming that they depict the exact same head shot when you really mean that you don't see any obvious discrepancies between the two.

And one could always speculate that we may not have ever seen Muchmore if there were any.

[Jack Trojan]

I'm going to have to disagree with you, as I do believe that Muchmore's film and Zapruder's film show the EXACT same headshot, and indeed the EXACT same scene - obviously taking in to account the different perspectives of the photographers. 

I can see NO inconsistencies. 
I can see 100% correlation between things like:
    *  JFK's head being positioned forward and to the left
    *  Jackie's right elbow immediately behind JFK's left shoulder
    *  Moorman's position in the background
    *  Kellerman's head pointed straight ahead

As far as your "if Muchmore was the only thing you had to go on, you wouldn't even know that the guy was shot" comment... seriously ?  There's clearly a halo of blood and brain matter ejecting from JFK's head just as is seen in Zapruder.

I think a reasonable person can conclude that both photo's are depicting the EXACT same event and the EXACT same instant.

They are obviously depicting the same event but the question is whether the head shot occurred at the EXACT same instant. You can't make that determination by eye-balling the films. You need  to know the exact frame rates for both films then match them up.

For example, there would be differences if frames were removed from the Z-film intended to speed up the limo. This might be detected by synchronizing both flims at frame 313 of the Z film, then advancing the films 1 frame at a time and trying to match up landmarks common to both films. Problem being, an offset of a few frames represents at most a few feet depending the speed of the limo and the camera operator's panning rate. IOW, it is extremely difficult to detect the EXACT frame when films do not match unless enough frames have been removed from 1 of the films. Also, we have no way of knowing whether the films were edited to match each other.

For what it is worth, here is an analysis of the limo speed for the Zapruder and Nix films on a frame by frame basis. Limo speeds are relative to photo units and actual speeds can be calculated by using physical rulers in each film (i.e. tire diameter) to establish a pixels/foot ruler.

[Steve Thompson]

You don't see a wound of any kind in Muchmore.  How could you possibly determine that they are EXACTLY the same?

Clearly you jest.  How is this "clearly" a  halo of blood and brain matter?



The point is that you are overstating by claiming that they depict the exact same head shot when you really mean that you don't see any obvious discrepancies between the two.

And one could always speculate that we may not have ever seen Muchmore if there were any.

You've convinced me John.
I was mistaken.
And your right, that cloud coming out of JFK's head could be anything.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Take care.

[Jack Trojan]

Speaking of JFK's head exploding...why does frame 317 look like a fireball blew out a perfectly circular hole on the RIGHT SIDE of JFK's head when the shot supposedly came from the TSBD?



And when does a FMJ bullet explode in the 1st place? And why didn't the MB explode, let alone show up on the wrong stretcher with no trace of DNA in swimming pool condition?