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[Paul May]

we have no way of knowing the weight of CE-399 before the shooting as even bullets from the same lots at manufacture can be significantly different in weight.

You are simply a liar, Mr May....  Bullets CANNOT be "significantly different in weight".... To make such a statement is asinine. I will look up the manufacturing spec for a 6.5mm 160 grain bullet and report back....

I found this interesting bit of information.....

 the standard Italian service round used an unstable round-nosed bullet with a propensity to tumble, whether hitting soft tissue/ballistic gel or harder material such as bone.

The liars on LBJ's Cover Up Committee would like us to believe that CE 399 hit JFK ....then Hit JBC rib and then his wrist and remained in nearly pristine condition....

I believe that a 160 grain FMJ 6.5mm Carcano bullet could weigh between 158.8 grains and  161.2 grains .....  That is NOT a SIGNIFICANT difference.

Walt, do you have even an elementary understanding of ballistics? Have you done ANY actual research?  I?ve asked you about your research methodology several times and you?ve not responded.  You?re not shy but I understand why.  Speak with ANY ammunition manufacturer/distributor. The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic. Nobody on our planet can testify to the specific weight of CE-399 before firing other than conspiracy nuts like you and you confirm this with each posting. Perhaps, at some point you fell off your motorcycle.  Should have worn a helmet.

[Tom Scully]

Walt, do you have even an elementary understanding of ballistics? Have you done ANY actual research?  I?ve asked you about your research methodology several times and you?ve not responded.  You?re not shy but I understand why.  Speak with ANY ammunition manufacturer/distributor. The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic. Nobody on our planet can testify to the specific weight of CE-399 before firing other than conspiracy nuts like you and you confirm this with each posting. Perhaps, at some point you fell off your motorcycle.  Should have worn a helmet.

https://www.nytimes.com/1993/06/18/us/fbi-backs-plan-to-remove-connally-bullet-fragments.html
F.B.I. Backs Plan to Remove Connally Bullet Fragments
By DAVID JOHNSTON  JUNE 18, 1993

The F.B.I. today endorsed the idea of removing bullet fragments from John B. Connally, the former Texas Governor who died Tuesday, in the hope of laying to rest the controversy over the assassination of President John F. Kennedy.

Mr. Connally, who was buried today at a state cemetery near Austin, Tex., was wounded in the back, wrist and thigh while riding with Kennedy in a Dallas motorcade when the President was killed on Nov. 22, 1963.

Officials of the Federal Bureau of Investigation here and in Dallas said they favored exhuming the body and trying to recover the fragments if the Connally family consented. "If the family will allow this to be done, we could put this to rest," said Oliver B. Revell, the head of the F.B.I. office in Dallas. "Conspiracy theorists are not going to let this go away."

Mr. Revell said there was a fragment in one of Mr. Connally's thighs and perhaps some traces in a wrist. An examination of the fragments could test the single-bullet theory accepted by the Warren Commission, which investigated the assassination. The panel concluded that a single gunman, Lee Harvey Oswald, fired all of the shots that hit the President and Mr. Connally as they rode in the motorcade in Dallas.

The panel found that Kennedy and Governor Connally were struck nearly simultaneously by a single bullet, seconds before the President was struck by a fatal shot to the head.....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1993/06/18/connally-takes-bullet-pieces-to-grave/1cab4644-c1be-4499-8d85-ed3bae858d17/?utm_term=.df47926fe62f
CONNALLY TAKES BULLET PIECES TO GRAVE
By George Lardner Jr. June 18, 1993.....
The "single bullet" or "magic bullet" theory was crucial to the Warren Commission's findings that Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone, killed the president and wounded Connally as the two men rode together in a motorcade through downtown Dallas.

Connally's family and friends were upset and angry about the last-minute hubbub over the bullet fragments, which began Wednesday with requests from Kennedy assassination researchers urging the Justice Department to step in. A spokesman at Justice said officials attempted to contact the family yesterday morning after receiving the FBI recommendation but were unsuccessful.

"It's really offensive," said George Christian, a longtime Connally friend and once his press secretary. "Nobody in the Connally family that I know of ever heard of these fragments......

"If the family would agree and we can examine those under current technology," Revell said, "we could do one of two things. We could say, 'Yes, indeed, this was the bullet {that hit both men} and there is no basis for saying there were additional shots. But if the mass and metallurgy don't match, we've got a different ballgame."

Some bullet fragments were extracted from Connally's wrist at Parkland Hospital in 1963. Tests in 1977 for the House assassinations committee matched several bits with the "pristine bullet," but questions about the authenticity of the pieces arose because they did not have the same weight as fragments tested years earlier -- and inconclusively -- by the FBI. The FBI's fragments disappeared....

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/zimmerman/frontmenu_000025.htm
Chad Zimmerman ? Copyright 2004.
.....
The Western Cartridge Company Carcano Round ....
...WCC 6.5mm FMJ data:
 
Bullet Weight- Several sources can be used to ascertain the bullet weight. Dr. John K. Lattimer weighed 100 WCC bullets. The average weight was 160.844 grains. The bullets ranged in weight between 159.9 and 161.5 grains. The spread equals 1.6 grains. Tom Purvis, assassination researcher, acquired a few rounds and was able to weigh them. He weighed 12 rounds and found the average weight to be 160.497 grains. The FBI analysis of the WCC rounds produced a small sample for consideration. Agent Robert Frazier weighed three rounds for comparative analysis and found the weights to be 160.85, 161.1 and 161.5 grains for an average weight of 161.15 grains. I have one round, lot unidentified, which weighs 161.6 grains. Utilizing the above data, we can develop an effective average and range. 
 
WCC mean weight- 160.82 grains
WCC weight range- 159.9-161.6 grains
WCC spread- 1.7 grains ..

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/factoid7.htm
Unreliable Ammo?

...In separate tests, the Infantry Weapons Evaluation Branch of the U.S. Army fired another 47 bullets, with no misfires. (3H449)
But the Warren Commission tests were not the last.

Dr. John Nichols and Dr. John Lattimer independently did extensive shooting tests with Mannlicher-Carcano rifles and the same lots of ammo that Oswald used. Lattimer summarized the results:

Our final question concerned Oswald's ammunition: Was it reliable? To test this, we fired 700 rounds of the same type of cartridge as those used by Oswald (from sub-lots 6000, 6001, 6002, 6003), manufactured by the Western Cartridge Company, a branch of the Winchester Repeating Arms Company, in the same year as those used by Oswald.
None of these rounds failed to fire, even though an additional four years had elapsed since the Kennedy shooting, making this ammunition thirteen years old at the time of the testing. Dr. John Nichols had reported the same degree of dependability, and the FBI agents [and Army shooters] who fired ammunition from lots 6000 and 6003 with Oswald's rifle more than 100 times also reported no failures to fire. These various samples represented every lot manufactured, so they much have included the lot from which Oswald's ammunition came.

In all, more than 900 rounds of this Western Cartridge Company 6.5 mm. ammunition have been fired in our experiments and those of others without a single failure to fire on the first attempt. (Kennedy and Lincoln, pp. 288-289)...

[Paul May]

Good posting Tom.

[Paul May]

we have no way of knowing the weight of CE-399 before the shooting as even bullets from the same lots at manufacture can be significantly different in weight.

You are simply a liar, Mr May....  Bullets CANNOT be "significantly different in weight".... To make such a statement is asinine. I will look up the manufacturing spec for a 6.5mm 160 grain bullet and report back....

I found this interesting bit of information.....

 the standard Italian service round used an unstable round-nosed bullet with a propensity to tumble, whether hitting soft tissue/ballistic gel or harder material such as bone.

The liars on LBJ's Cover Up Committee would like us to believe that CE 399 hit JFK ....then Hit JBC rib and then his wrist and remained in nearly pristine condition....

I believe that a 160 grain FMJ 6.5mm Carcano bullet could weigh between 158.8 grains and  161.2 grains .....  That is NOT a SIGNIFICANT difference.

So, some 56 years AFTER the event, you now found out CE-399 was tumbling! Hint for you genius, it?s not unusual for a FMJ?d bullet to tumble after going through soft tissue.  Of course, when one, YOU, does no actual research, that remains an unknown. It?s no doubt apparent to those reading this exchange you have little actual knowledge of the events of 11/22.  That happens when all you do is read conspiracy crap. Once again, near pristine is an oxymoron. CE-399 was considerably ?bowed? in the center and ?tooth pasting? lead from the bottom. RESEARCH big man, research!

[Walt Cakebread]

Walt, do you have even an elementary understanding of ballistics? Have you done ANY actual research?  I?ve asked you about your research methodology several times and you?ve not responded.  You?re not shy but I understand why.  Speak with ANY ammunition manufacturer/distributor. The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic. Nobody on our planet can testify to the specific weight of CE-399 before firing other than conspiracy nuts like you and you confirm this with each posting. Perhaps, at some point you fell off your motorcycle.  Should have worn a helmet.

My friend Tom Scully posted the information that I was looking  for.....

The Western Cartridge Company Carcano Round ....
...WCC 6.5mm FMJ data:
 
Bullet Weight- Several sources can be used to ascertain the bullet weight. Dr. John K. Lattimer weighed 100 WCC bullets. The average weight was 160.844 grains. The bullets ranged in weight between 159.9 and 161.5 grains. The spread equals 1.6 grains. Tom Purvis, assassination researcher, acquired a few rounds and was able to weigh them. He weighed 12 rounds and found the average weight to be 160.497 grains. The FBI analysis of the WCC rounds produced a small sample for consideration. Agent Robert Frazier weighed three rounds for comparative analysis and found the weights to be 160.85, 161.1 and 161.5 grains for an average weight of 161.15 grains. I have one round, lot unidentified, which weighs 161.6 grains. Utilizing the above data, we can develop an effective average and range. 
 
WCC mean weight- 160.82 grains
WCC weight range- 159.9-161.6 grains
WCC spread- 1.7 grains ..

The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic.

What would be dramatic would be the results of firing ammo that used projectiles of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights....If the Axis alliance had used 6.5mm carcano bullets of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights ..... Italy would have been defeated in 1942....And the casualties of Allied soldiers would have been far less....                 

[Paul May]

My friend Tom Scully posted the information that I was looking  for.....

The Western Cartridge Company Carcano Round ....
...WCC 6.5mm FMJ data:
 
Bullet Weight- Several sources can be used to ascertain the bullet weight. Dr. John K. Lattimer weighed 100 WCC bullets. The average weight was 160.844 grains. The bullets ranged in weight between 159.9 and 161.5 grains. The spread equals 1.6 grains. Tom Purvis, assassination researcher, acquired a few rounds and was able to weigh them. He weighed 12 rounds and found the average weight to be 160.497 grains. The FBI analysis of the WCC rounds produced a small sample for consideration. Agent Robert Frazier weighed three rounds for comparative analysis and found the weights to be 160.85, 161.1 and 161.5 grains for an average weight of 161.15 grains. I have one round, lot unidentified, which weighs 161.6 grains. Utilizing the above data, we can develop an effective average and range. 
 
WCC mean weight- 160.82 grains
WCC weight range- 159.9-161.6 grains
WCC spread- 1.7 grains ..

The differences in grain, from the VERY same lot can be dramatic.

What would be dramatic would be the results of firing ammo that used projectiles of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights....If the Axis alliance had used 6.5mm carcano bullets of SIGNIFICANTLY different weights ..... Italy would have been defeated in 1942....And the casualties of Allied soldiers would have been far less....                 

And this would be your latest research? An opinion? Seriously?

[Jack Trojan]

So, some 56 years AFTER the event, you now found out CE-399 was tumbling! Hint for you genius, it?s not unusual for a FMJ?d bullet to tumble after going through soft tissue.  Of course, when one, YOU, does no actual research, that remains an unknown. It?s no doubt apparent to those reading this exchange you have little actual knowledge of the events of 11/22.  That happens when all you do is read conspiracy crap. Once again, near pristine is an oxymoron. CE-399 was considerably ?bowed? in the center and ?tooth pasting? lead from the bottom. RESEARCH big man, research!

Paul, the bottom line is to account for the total mass of CE-399 after the shooting. Connally denied access to the fragments in his wrist and rib upon his death so we can only speculate how much material was left in his body. It also smashed thru JFK's C7 vertebrae so there was probably material left there. However, despite these discrepancies, CE-399 was pristine (95% intact). So how much mass was actually lost? Was it more than 5% of the total mass or was CE-399 "pristine"? That is the question.

[Paul May]

Paul, the bottom line is to account for the total mass of CE-399 after the shooting. Connally denied access to the fragments in his wrist and rib upon his death so we can only speculate how much material was left in his body. It also smashed thru JFK's C7 vertebrae so there was probably material left there. However, despite these discrepancies, CE-399 was pristine (95% intact). So how much mass was actually lost? Was it more than 5% of the total mass or was CE-399 "pristine"? That is the question.

Impossible Jack, cannot be done. No fired bullet can EVER be called pristine. Typically the grooves in the rifle barrel would see to that. Have you seen the photos of CE-399?  Balistically, it?s a completely deformed bullet. Look at the photos top to bottom.  I have no information how much mass was lost. I do know CE-399 behaved in a manner consistent with fmj?d ammunition.