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Author Topic: BWF and LMR may not have been the only ones who saw LHO with a bag on 11/22/1963  (Read 122814 times)

Online Richard Smith

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No one saw anyone make the bag made.  That would mean under your bizarre logic that it wasn't made even though it exists.

And you talk about idiotic nonsense? The fact that nobody saw anyone make the bag merely means that you can not simply claim that Oswald made it, since you have no evidence for that, only wild assumptions.

Everything else in your rant is based on one assumption after another combined with unsubstantiated claims. Making up a narrative out of speculation is easy. You know this because you do it all the time. Backing it up with conclusive evidence is the hard part. And you know that too, as you always fail to do so.

I can understand why you are running scared from facts and logic and trying to avoid discussing them.  Your silly claim is that because no one saw Oswald make the bag that somehow means he didn't do so.  But we know someone did make the bag undetected because that is what happened.  As a result, Oswald is not precluded in any way whatsoever from being that person.  In fact, he was better positioned than a stranger to have access to materials and opportunity to construct the bag undetected.  But that is rabbit hole CTer nonsense.  Oswald's prints are on the bag.  That's called evidence not speculation or wild assumption.  Oswald is seen carrying a long bag into the TSBD.  Evidence.  He lies about it.  Evidence.  Common sense dictates that you don't lie about the contents of a bag if it is exculpatory and assists you.  Only if it is incriminatory.  But you throw facts, common sense, and evidence out the window because you don't like the obvious conclusion.  There is zero doubt in the historical record beyond the fringe element that Oswald carried the rifle into the TSBD in the bag found on the 6th floor. 

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Offline Alan Ford

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Oswald is seen carrying a long bag into the TSBD.

Weasel words!

Truthful version: Mr Oswald is seen carrying a bag towards the building; the person who saw this has consistently insisted the bag was not long enough to be CE142.

 Thumb1:

Offline Jerry Freeman

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LOL. More idiotic nonsense.  No one saw anyone make the bag made.    
Talk about nonsense. "No one saw anyone make the bag made". And that post was edited for grammatical correction?
Worse than catatonic ??? Who besides Make it all up as she goes along Marina ever saw Oswald with this Carcano rifle. [And even she couldn't really identify it]

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Offline Martin Weidmann

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I can understand why you are running scared from facts and logic and trying to avoid discussing them.  Your silly claim is that because no one saw Oswald make the bag that somehow means he didn't do so.  But we know someone did make the bag undetected because that is what happened.  As a result, Oswald is not precluded in any way whatsoever from being that person.  In fact, he was better positioned than a stranger to have access to materials and opportunity to construct the bag undetected.  But that is rabbit hole CTer nonsense.  Oswald's prints are on the bag.  That's called evidence not speculation or wild assumption.  Oswald is seen carrying a long bag into the TSBD.  Evidence.  He lies about it.  Evidence.  Common sense dictates that you don't lie about the contents of a bag if it is exculpatory and assists you.  Only if it is incriminatory.  But you throw facts, common sense, and evidence out the window because you don't like the obvious conclusion.  There is zero doubt in the historical record beyond the fringe element that Oswald carried the rifle into the TSBD in the bag found on the 6th floor.

I can understand why you are running scared from facts and logic and trying to avoid discussing them.

What facts in your delusional rant do I run away from? You don't know what a fact is when it hits you in the face. You clearly lack the ability to differentiate between a true fact and the assumptions you think are facts.

Your silly claim is that because no one saw Oswald make the bag that somehow means he didn't do so.

Nope.. that's not my claim at all. Anybody with a functional brain understands that it is not my claim.

But we know someone did make the bag undetected because that is what happened. 

Yes, so what?

As a result, Oswald is not precluded in any way whatsoever from being that person.

And neither is anybody else who had access to the shipping room of the TSBD.

In fact, he was better positioned than a stranger to have access to materials and opportunity to construct the bag undetected.

Anybody who worked in the TSBD would have been better positioned than a stranger.

Oswald's prints are on the bag.  That's called evidence not speculation or wild assumption.

And so are other prints. The fact that they can not be identified means it can not be ruled out that others touched the bag as well. When you cite evidence, please cite it correctly and completely and not just the part that serves your purpose!

Oswald is seen carrying a long bag into the TSBD.  Evidence.

Evidence of what exactly? That he carried a bag... sure, but two witnesses who actually saw the bag said that it wasn't the one that was allegdly found at the TSBD

He lies about it.  Evidence.

Again, evidence of what? He was asked if he brought in a large bag and he says; no, only a lunch bag. In other words, he simply denies the bag he brought in was large!

Common sense dictates that you don't lie about the contents of a bag if it is exculpatory and assists you.  Only if it is incriminatory.

The only problem with that is you can't even demonstrate conclusively that he actually lied, so all the "common sense" crap you attach to it is just that; crap! And no amount of circular reasoning on your part is going to alter that.

But you throw facts, common sense, and evidence out the window because you don't like the obvious conclusion.

Wrong again. I just don't like jumping to conclusions based on assumptions as you do all the time.

There is zero doubt in the historical record beyond the fringe element that Oswald carried the rifle into the TSBD in the bag found on the 6th floor.

There is zero conclusive evidence that he did that. Doubt there is plenty of whether you like and agree with that or not.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 08:41:07 PM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Weasel words!

Truthful version: Mr Oswald is seen carrying a bag towards the building; the person who saw this has consistently insisted the bag was not long enough to be CE142.

 Thumb1:

There is no point in confronting Richard Smith with facts?. He is immune and impervious to them.

Try wild speculative conjecture and call it common sense logic and you might get through to him.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 07:13:23 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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Offline Alan Ford

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There is no point in confronting Richard Smith with facts?. He is immune and impervious to them.

Try wild speculative conjecture and call it common sense logic and you might get through to him.

I fear you're right, Mr Weidmann!  :(

Offline Bill Chapman

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Buell was shown the fingerprinted bag at another time, when he indicated it could have been the bag he saw.

"Oh they showed him the bag numerous times and yet, till this day, he still denies that it was the bag Oswald carried."

>>> Yep. The guy who drove the (eventual) prime suspect to the (eventual) scene of the crime. The guy who lost a job and suffered harassment from the genpop because of his involvement with the (eventual) prime suspect. The guy who said he didn't want to be remembered as ? wait for it ? the guy who drove the (eventual) prime suspect to the (eventual) scene of the crime. The guy who had only seen Oswald carrying the bag from behind. The bag that only exposed a sliver of the Buell-estimated 27" long bag carried by the 5'9" (eventual) prime suspect who must have been a knuckle-dragger to have been able to fit that size under his armpit. The (eventual) prime suspect who,seemed to have found it more efficient to carry said bag in a more exposed position less than an hour earlier that very morning.
 
And Randle testified to the bag being a thick wrapping-type paper, not the kind found in grocery stores.

"And yet, Randle went to her grave having denied it was the bag Oswald carried all her life"
>>> Yep. The sister of the guy who drove the (eventual) prime suspect to the (eventual) scene of the crime. The sister who initially said the bag was about two and a half feet long and looked long enough to contain a rifle.   

Why are you mentioning Oscar to me? You sound like you want me to chime in on that.

"You already did. That's why I mentioned him."
>>> What gave you the idea that I agreed with him

Well, the police searched the TSBD long enough to find a high-powered rifle. The casings were a bonus, and the bag not expected.

"You mean, they searched the 6th floor long enough to find those items... yes, they did"
>>> Yep. And bad luck for Oswald

You wouldn't happen to be implying that other rifles and other gun bags should have been expected to be found elsewhere in the TSBD that day, now would you, Lord Haughty?

"The only one who constantly implies stuff is you!"
>>> BUMP
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 10:13:52 PM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Martin Weidmann

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"Oh they showed him the bag numerous times and yet, till this day, he still denies that it was the bag Oswald carried."

>>> Yep. The guy who drove the (eventual) prime suspect to the (eventual) scene of the crime. The guy who lost a job and suffered harassment from the genpop because of his involvement with the (eventual) prime suspect. The guy who said he didn't want to be remembered as ? wait for it ? the guy who drove the (eventual) prime suspect to the (eventual) scene of the crime. The guy who had only seen Oswald carrying the bag from behind. The bag that only exposed a sliver of the Buell-estimated 27" long bag carried by the 5'9" (eventual) prime suspect who must have been a knuckle-dragger to have been able to fit that size under his armpit. The (eventual) prime suspect who, it seems to me to find it more efficient to carry said bag in a more exposed position less than an hour earlier that very morning.
 

Yeah, that guy? the guy who saw the package lying on the backseat of his car, the guy who saw Oswald putting the package in the cup of his hand and under his shoulder, the guy who, on Friday evening, only hours after the murder, denied that the bag shown to him was the same as the bag he had seen, the same guy Captain Fritz tried to beat a false confession out of. And oh yeah, the same guy, who despite all the problems in life he experienced due to his involvement in this mess still says to this day that the bag they showed him wasn't the one Oswald carried.

And before I forget;

This: "The guy who had only seen Oswald carrying the bag from behind." is a lie. When you need to lie to make a point, you've already lost the argument!

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And Randle testified to the bag being a thick wrapping-type paper, not the kind found in grocery stores.

"And yet, Randle went to her grave having denied it was the bag Oswald carried all her life"
>>> Yep. The sister of the guy who drove the (eventual) prime suspect to the (eventual) scene of the crime. The sister who initially said the bag was about two and a half feet long and looked long enough to contain a rifle.   

Stop lying. Randle never said that the bag looked long enough to contain a rifle.

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Why are you mentioning Oscar to me? You sound like you want me to chime in on that.

"You already did. That's why I mentioned him."
>>> What gave you the idea that I agreed with him

You are in the habit of bringing up stuff you disagree with? Well, that's good to know

Quote
Well, the police searched the TSBD long enough to find a high-powered rifle. The casings were a bonus, and the bag not expected.

"You mean, they searched the 6th floor long enough to find those items... yes, they did"
>>> Yep. And bad luck for Oswald

Indeed, bad luck for Oswald as it stopped any fair investigation dead in it's tracks

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You wouldn't happen to be implying that other rifles and other gun bags should have been expected to be found elsewhere in the TSBD that day, now would you, Lord Haughty?

"The only one who constantly implies stuff is you!"
>>> BUMP

Already answered.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2019, 10:42:23 PM by Martin Weidmann »

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