BWF and LMR may not have been the only ones who saw LHO with a bag on 11/22/1963

[Tim Nickerson]

Isn?t it wild and rather desperate speculation to assume that it?s the same curtain rods taken out of the garage earlier without Ruth Paine?s knowledge and then returned, again without her knowledge, in order to be ?found? again? And ?documentation? for all of that is just ?missing??

Mr. JENNER - Now, the police picked up some books, did they not, and other papers and things of which you were not aware at the time, you weren't present when they did that, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE - Most of what they took I did not see.

[John Iacoletti]

Mr. JENNER - Now, the police picked up some books, did they not, and other papers and things of which you were not aware at the time, you weren't present when they did that, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE - Most of what they took I did not see.

I think you missed this part:

Mr. JENNER - Now, Mrs. Paine, one of the things we said we might see is a package that was in your garage containing curtain rods.
Mrs. PAINE - Yes--as you recall.
Mr. JENNER - You said you would leave that package in precisely the place wherever it was last week when you were in Washington, D.C., and have you touched it since you came home?
Mrs. PAINE - I have not touched it.
Mr. JENNER - And is it now in the place it was to the best of your recollection on November 21, 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

[Tim Nickerson]

I think you missed this part:

Mr. JENNER - Now, Mrs. Paine, one of the things we said we might see is a package that was in your garage containing curtain rods.
Mrs. PAINE - Yes--as you recall.
Mr. JENNER - You said you would leave that package in precisely the place wherever it was last week when you were in Washington, D.C., and have you touched it since you came home?
Mrs. PAINE - I have not touched it.
Mr. JENNER - And is it now in the place it was to the best of your recollection on November 21, 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

What makes you think that I missed that part?

[Alan Ford]

Yes, I definitely am confused. You say that the rods explain themselves. Well, I'm going to need you to interpret their explanation for me. You claim that they laid undisturbed in the Paine garage since before the assassination

No, Ms Paine claimed that! And you are claiming that Agent Howlett knowingly omitted to mention otherwise to the WC.

and that they were different from the two that were submitted to the DPD crime lab on March 15. How is it then that they were of the same description and were given the same number designations(275  and 276) as those submitted on March 15?

So they were given the designation 275 and 276 on 15 March, not 23 March? Think before you answer, Mr Nickerson! 

They're not quite 'the same description' by the way:
--------------Agent Howlett describes the 23 March Paine garage rods as "one a white and the other a kind of buff color or cream colored";
--------------Lieutenant Day's Crime Scene Search Section form entry makes no distinction as to color, describing them both merely as "white enameled".

Keeping in mind that Howlett was the official who personally handled "both sets", what are the odds that they were actually two different sets of curtain rods?

Very high, actually! You and I agree that Mr Howlett lied during Ms Paine's 23 March testimony in Irving; we just have different opinions as to the substance of his lie.

I'm going to give you a challenge, Mr Nickerson. Here is a segment from that Ruth Paine testimony of 23 March. I have added a sentence. Can you find it?

Mr. JENNER - Now, we all see, do we not, peeking up what appears to be a butt end of what we might call a curtain rod, is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE - That's correct.
Mr. JENNER - Is that correct, Mr. Howlett?
Agent HOWLETT - Yes, sir; that's correct.
Mr. JENNER - Painted or enameled white?
Agent HOWLETT - Yes, sir.
Mr. JENNER - Would you reach back there and take out what appears to be a curtain rod, Mr. Howlett-- how many do you have there?
Agent HOWLETT - There are two curtain rods, one a white and the other a kind of buff color or cream colored. But I already knew that, I put them back there myself the other day.

 

[John Iacoletti]

What makes you think that I missed that part?

Because she knew those particular items were in her garage undisturbed since the assassination.

So how did Howlett get them on the 15th, and how and why were they returned only to be ?found? again?

[Alan Ford]

Because she knew those particular items were in her garage undisturbed since the assassination.

So how did Howlett get them on the 15th, and how and why were they returned only to be ?found? again?

Good question x 2!

Also: why the heck would 2 curtain rods which have lain undisturbed in the Paine garage be tested for Mr Oswald's fingerprints?

Mr Nickerson claims not to care about this question, but that's just the LNer way of saying, 'I have no answer to that at this moment'.

[Walt Cakebread]

I think you missed this part:

Mr. JENNER - Now, Mrs. Paine, one of the things we said we might see is a package that was in your garage containing curtain rods.
Mrs. PAINE - Yes--as you recall.
Mr. JENNER - You said you would leave that package in precisely the place wherever it was last week when you were in Washington, D.C., and have you touched it since you came home?
Mrs. PAINE - I have not touched it.
Mr. JENNER - And is it now in the place it was to the best of your recollection on November 21, 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

Mr. JENNER - And is it now in the place it was to the best of your recollection on November 21, 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

How utterly STUPID!!.....  The police had been through that garage with a fine tooth comb....and Prs Paine has the unmitigated audacity to claim that the curtain rods were in exactly the same place in Marchof 64, as they were on November 21, 1963......  Ludicrous!!

[Alan Ford]

Mr. JENNER - And is it now in the place it was to the best of your recollection on November 21, 1963?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

How utterly STUPID!!.....  The police had been through that garage with a fine tooth comb....and Prs Paine has the unmitigated audacity to claim that the curtain rods were in exactly the same place in Marchof 64, as they were on November 21, 1963......  Ludicrous!!

'Utterly STUPID' is about the size of it alright, Mr Cakebread! 

Given what Mr Frazier was saying the evening of 11/22, and its potential significance for the question of Mr Oswald's guilt or innocence, the chances that curtain rods were not one of the very first things the police & FBI would have looked for in the Paine home are nil.

And yet there is no mention anywhere of such a search, let alone its result. 'Obviously there must be some documentation missing'!