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Author Topic: How to frame Oswald?  (Read 18712 times)

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 02:27:01 PM »
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If we assume that the order form was indeed falsified, it would nevertheless have had to enter Klein's system to produce the remainder of the paper trail, wouldn't it? Or do you think it's possible that both order form and the subsequent documents were falsified and added to Klein's records after the fact? And would that not make it part of a cover up rather than framing Oswald in advance?

Mr Weidmann, this is an extremely important observation!

In order to answer the question, 'How to frame Oswald?', we must break the question down into two distinct phases:

1. How were the JFK assassination conspirators to frame Oswald as X?

2. How were the Oswald-Acted-Alone investigators to frame Oswald as the lone nut shooter?

We will lose our way if we assume that 'X = the lone nut shooter'!

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2019, 02:27:01 PM »


Offline Alan Ford

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2019, 02:29:50 PM »
We must also include Oswald's own statements - he said he was a patsy; he said the BYP were fake and in time he could prove it; he said he was out front during the P parade (corroborated by two people now); a co-worker testified that LHO asked him what the ruckus was about before the shooting. And it's very, very possible he was caught on camera standing in the front vestibule moments after the shooting.

Mr Walton, it is most unusual----------and genuinely refreshing------------to see someone reconsider their position on an issue when confronted with new evidence!

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Online Richard Smith

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 02:51:47 PM »
The frame up would require the following:

1) Frazier's sister has to move near Ruth Paine.  Frazier has to move in and obtain a job at the TSBD.  So two families.
2) Paine has to get Marina to live with her.  So Oswald's wife.
3) Marina has to agree to move in with Paine.
4) Paine has to become aware of the job opening at the TSBD.
5) Oswald has to agree to apply and take the job.  Add Truly.
6) Truly has to agree to hire Oswald and retain him until the assassination.
7) Oswald has to agree to remain on (his job history is not the most dependable) and show up on the day of the assassination.  Add Oswald.
8) JFK has to come to Dallas during the appropriate time frame.  Add JFK and members of his government.
9) Oswald has to order or an elaborate hoax has to be arranged to forge documents, pictures and force witnesses including his own wife and employees of Klein's to confirm that he ordered and received a specific rifle with a unique serial number.  Add Klein's and witnesses that confirm Oswald possessed a rifle.
10) the motorcade has to pass the TSBD.  That brings in the SS into the plot since they make that decision.
11)  Oswald has to be somehow convinced to make an unplanned trip to the location where his rifle is stored the night before the assassination.  He has to carry a large package the next morning or Frazier and his sister must lie about this.
12)  A multitude of evidence has to be planted at the TSBD unnoticed by anyone including the gun, bullet casings, bag.  Oswald's prints have to be found on many incriminating items.  So the DPD and FBI are involved.  Somehow the conspirators have to ensure Oswald is not in a location where someone can give him an alibi at the moment of the assassination. No easy task.  Add more people.
13) There are allegations that someone is turning the power off in the building for some unspecified purpose (didn't happen but some CTers claim it did).  So add another person.
14)  You would need someone to actually assassinate JFK if it wasn't Oswald.  So add at least one assassin who somehow gets away completely unnoticed.  So likely had assistance.  Add more people.
15)  Somehow the conspirators have to ensure that no one has a picture or film of the real assassin.  Add a team in DP.
16)  Any evidence such as bullets or bullet fragments that don't come from Oswald's rifle have to be recovered and replaced.  Add a team that has access to the body, any wounded person or other such evidence for the medical procedures etc.  Somehow coerce the medical folks to lie.  Add dozens more.
17) Add a team to kill Oswald after the assassination that involves recruiting a person willing to go to jail for the rest of their lives.  Coordinate the murder of Oswald including getting access to do it.  Hope that he doesn't screw it up or talk after the fact.  Add dozens more to arrange Ruby's act and control what he says in custody for however long he lives.
18) Ensure everyone at the DPD, FBI or involved in any subsequent official investigation is on board with the plan.  Add folks to cover up for decades to the present day if paranoid CTers are to be believed including somehow controlling the media.

Grand total.  A cast of thousands from various walks of life including random citizens, family members, state and federal law enforcement, doctors, politicians, a team with a multitude of assignments before, during and after the assassination etc.  The alternative is that Oswald put his gun in a bag, found a shooting location, and pulled the trigger.  As the evidence confirms.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 04:47:54 PM by Richard Smith »

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2019, 02:51:47 PM »


Offline Michael Walton

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2019, 04:21:23 PM »
RICHARD SMITH: Grand total.  A cast of thousands from various walks of life including random citizens, family members, state and federal law enforcement, doctors, politicians, a team with a multitude of assignments before, during and after the assassination etc.  The alternative is that Oswald put his gun in a bag, found a shooting location, and pulled the trigger.  As the evidence confirms.

***

LOL, this is funny. I always thought that CTers had wacky theories but I've learned something new here.

Oswald never got his day in court because, you know, according to this pristine evidence you mention, Jack Ruby was being patriotic and wanted to save poor Jackie the grief of coming back to Dallas to testify. That's a real confirmation of the evidence alright. LOL

Online Richard Smith

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2019, 04:47:07 PM »
RICHARD SMITH: Grand total.  A cast of thousands from various walks of life including random citizens, family members, state and federal law enforcement, doctors, politicians, a team with a multitude of assignments before, during and after the assassination etc.  The alternative is that Oswald put his gun in a bag, found a shooting location, and pulled the trigger.  As the evidence confirms.

***

LOL, this is funny. I always thought that CTers had wacky theories but I've learned something new here.

Oswald never got his day in court because, you know, according to this pristine evidence you mention, Jack Ruby was being patriotic and wanted to save poor Jackie the grief of coming back to Dallas to testify. That's a real confirmation of the evidence alright. LOL

Yes, facts are difficult things when applied to fantasy.  The JFK assassination is unique in many respects that shed light on the absurdity of it being a planned event involving the framing of Oswald.  In a planned scenario, for example, it would be much simpler to move your patsy to the target instead of the reverse.  But here the President of the United States must be moved into a position from which Oswald can assassinate him with all the complexity and uncertainty that entails.  It takes the involvement of numerous people from all walks of life to put Oswald in his job at the TSBD and ensure the president comes to Dallas and drives by that building. 

All somehow centered around the Mr. Magoo-like cooperation of a flightly loon like Oswald who might quit any day or not show up and blow the whole complex frame up.  It's laughable Bigfoot nonsense to suggest that all the machinations necessary to put Oswald in the TSBD and then bring JFK to him would have been planned and manipulated by someone.  And that doesn't even get into pulling the assassination off with someone else and covering that up.  It's not just framing Oswald, but also committing the assassination, covering that up, and then killing Oswald in police custody and then covering that up.   And then covering up those in the know forever.  Absurd.

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2019, 04:47:07 PM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2019, 04:49:40 PM »
The framing IMO began on Sunday night on live TV when Dan Rather described the Zapruder film to the nation (but of course the nation never saw that film publicly until 1975). In it, he described how he fell forward when he was hit in the head, leaving out the back and to the left motion. I know any number of people are going to disagree with this "back and to the left" movement as signifying that it was caused by a frontal shot.

I have high-speed videos of men whose heads are in the same position as Kennedy's and they both take high-powered shots to the back of the head - neither of them go back and to the left like Kennedy did. But the point being, someone told Rather to keep it simple when he, as a reporter, "described" what he saw.

Oswald was already dead at this point when Rather went on TV, so it's very easy to manipulate the story and we have proof of that with the Katzenbach memo. No films or photos needed to be faked as it's much easier to manipulate the record by a bunch of lawyers, suppressing or not interviewing witnesses who go against the grain of the official story, showcasing those who do, interrupting witness testimony and injecting statements that kind of change the shape of the testimony, and so on.

Further, no body alteration and throwing his body into the cargo of AF1 and being picked up by a thrumming helicopter to be squirreled away and altered by mad doctors with scalpels at the ready was needed as well as all of the other nonsense. This was all created by "esteemed" authors to make a buck and to shovel their bullspombleprofglidnoctobuns to the many suckers out there.

We must also include Oswald's own statements - he said he was a patsy; he said the BYP were fake and in time he could prove it; he said he was out front during the P parade (corroborated by two people now); a co-worker testified that LHO asked him what the ruckus was about before the shooting. And it's very, very possible he was caught on camera standing in the front vestibule moments after the shooting.

And to Walt Cakebread - your silly story about Oswald being told he was going to take a potshot at Kennedy is an old one. I remember reading that way back in the early 70s.  It's a silly story. Oswald was no dummy and I think it'd be next to impossible to get anyone to go along with a ridiculous caper like that.

Ruth Payne got him the job there. Who had all of this additional paperwork on him afterward?

I invite you to go here:

http://www.pwc-sii.com/CourtDocs/Transcripts/Distaso-CA.htm

This is the closing argument by the district attorney during the Scott Peterson case. I know - WTF are you posting this for as it's got nothing to do with JFK. But take a while to read it. In it, I love the parts where this guy says over and over again, "It makes no sense. It's unreasonable."

Then apply this thinking to the JFK case. Is it reasonable, for example, to expect a guy to fire world-class shots at the president, dodge a bunch of boxes and hide his weapon and then be down on the 2nd floor calm and collected drinking  a soft drink when he's seen there 90 seconds afterward?  And so on and so forth.

The framing IMO began on Sunday night on live TV when Dan Rather described the Zapruder film to the nation

Michael,

I agree that Oswald's death made a cover up easier but I seriously doubt that it would have been possible to frame him without some pre-assassination preparations to set him up. In this thread I would like to focus on the rifle purchase and I can't really see how a mere cover up could have arranged a paper trail for the rifle purchase that quickly. In other words, if Oswald was indeed framed there is more to it than just a cover up after the fact.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2019, 04:52:24 PM »
Mr Weidmann, this is an extremely important observation!

In order to answer the question, 'How to frame Oswald?', we must break the question down into two distinct phases:

1. How were the JFK assassination conspirators to frame Oswald as X?

2. How were the Oswald-Acted-Alone investigators to frame Oswald as the lone nut shooter?

We will lose our way if we assume that 'X = the lone nut shooter'!

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Agreed

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2019, 04:56:25 PM »
The framing IMO began on Sunday night on live TV when Dan Rather described the Zapruder film to the nation

Michael,

I agree that Oswald's death made a cover up easier but I seriously doubt that it would have been possible to frame him without some pre-assassination preparations to set him up. In this thread I would like to focus on the rifle purchase and I can't really see how a mere cover up could have arranged a paper trail for the rifle purchase that quickly. In other words, if Oswald was indeed framed there is more to it than just a cover up after the fact.

Maybe the rifle really was bought by him? Maybe Mr Oswald really did shoot (at?) General Walker?

Plenty of CTers----e.g. Mr A. Marsh----have no problem with this idea.

If they are right, then all one would need posit is conspirators who knew about the rifle and where it was kept.

They would also know how well and truly screwed Mr Oswald would be when his rifle was discovered at the scene of the crime!

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« Last Edit: March 08, 2019, 04:59:11 PM by Alan Ford »

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Re: How to frame Oswald?
« Reply #15 on: March 08, 2019, 04:56:25 PM »