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Author Topic: Common Ground?  (Read 24558 times)

Offline Paul May

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2019, 03:04:21 PM »
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In fact, JFK was afflicted by a plethora of illnesses that nearly cost him his life before ever setting foot into the WH.  He was administered last rites from a priest on 4 separate occasions not including his assassination.  You don?t know this as you NEVER do ANY research. Ever.

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2019, 03:04:21 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #65 on: May 04, 2019, 04:53:02 PM »
LOL.  Try to follow along.  No one is arguing that there should not be criminal trials.  Where do you come up that kind of nonsense?  Where is Capt. Strawman now that we need him?  The obvious point is that an individual is not "innocent" merely because they die before a trial.

Actually, you?re Captain Strawman, but in this case I agree with you. Not guilty is not the same as innocent.

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  That is absurd.  We know John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln even though he was never convicted of that act.

Stop it with the false equivalence. We don?t know that Oswald assassinated Kennedy.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2019, 10:43:27 PM »
In fact, JFK was afflicted by a plethora of illnesses that nearly cost him his life before ever setting foot into the WH.  He was administered last rites from a priest on 4 separate occasions not including his assassination.  You don?t know this as you NEVER do ANY research. Ever.
What does this have to do with anything?

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #66 on: May 04, 2019, 10:43:27 PM »


Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #67 on: May 04, 2019, 10:48:24 PM »
LOL.  Try to follow along.  ...I've dumbed it down as much as possible for you.
Bloodhounds couldn't follow your 'logic'. Try not to dumb down any more than you already are have.

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2019, 12:51:21 AM »
LOL.  Try to follow along.  No one is arguing that there should not be criminal trials.  Where do you come up that kind of nonsense?  Where is Capt. Strawman now that we need him?  The obvious point is that an individual is not "innocent" merely because they die before a trial.  That is absurd.  We know John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln even though he was never convicted of that act.  To suggest he must be considered "innocent" because he was killed before getting a trial is false logic.  The same principle goes for Oswald.  Even if a defendant is found "not guilty" in a criminal trial that doesn't mean they are innocent.  It simply means that a judge or jury was not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of their guilt.  They could, however, still be responsible for the crime.  I've dumbed it down as much as possible for you.

The obvious point is that an individual is not "innocent" merely because they die before a trial.  That is absurd.

True, just as not all men convicted at trial are indeed guilty of the crime they were charged with. A jury verdict is a judgment call. One jury may convict, another may aquit


We know John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln even though he was never convicted of that act.  To suggest he must be considered "innocent" because he was killed before getting a trial is false logic. 

So the concept of innocent until proven guilty is false logic? I am not sure where you get it from that "we know" anything about this case? It seems to me it's far more a matter of assuming that what we are told is indeed correct. Having said that, I find the evidence for Wilkes Booth killing Lincoln persuasive enough to accept the premise that he did indeed kill the President.

The same principle goes for Oswald.

No it doesn't. The flawed circumstantial case against Oswald is a lot less persuasive than the evidence against Wilkes Booth.

Even if a defendant is found "not guilty" in a criminal trial that doesn't mean they are innocent.  It simply means that a judge or jury was not convinced beyond a reasonable doubt of their guilt.

True. Nevertheless, the law says in such an event that the person who is found not guilty has to be considered innocent, regardless of what other opinion a third party may have about that.

I've dumbed it down as much as possible for you.

You've done a good job of showing that your opinion about Oswald has nothing to do with whether he would be found guilty or innocent in a court of law. You would consider him to be guilty regardless. Who cares about reasonable doubt, prosecutorial misconduct, possible tampering with evidence? None of it matters to you. In your eyes, Oswald is guilty, period! The true mark of a religious zealot on a mission.....

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #68 on: May 05, 2019, 12:51:21 AM »


Offline Anthony Clayden

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #69 on: May 05, 2019, 10:23:02 PM »
To convict you need to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the defendant was capable of comitting the crime, one factor is his presence at the crime scene.
Between Garner and Dougherty, there are at least 2 people plausibly in the only possible path of Oswald from the crime scene to where he was discovered.
The failure to narrow Dougherty's movements, along with the appearant neglect of Garner's evidence (whether through neglect or malice) leaves doubt as to Oswald presence at he crime scene, the level of doubt is up to an individual but for me it reaches the level of reasonable doubt.

Another factor is their another suspect who could have committed the crime, whilst their is not enough evidence to convict Dougherty, he is IMHO a plausible alternative shooter.

This doesn't mean I don't think Oswald may have been the shooter, just that I have a reasonable level of doubt.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #70 on: May 06, 2019, 01:58:06 AM »
You must have a peculiar interpretation of innocence.  By that standard Hitler, Jack the Ripper, and John Wilkes Booth were are innocent if by that you mean they died before being convicted in a criminal trial. That is absurd.  A criminal trial is not like the hand of God deciding if someone committed an act or not.  Even a not guilty verdict doesn't mean the defendant is innocent.  Do you think there is any doubt that Ruby shot Oswald or that John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln simply because they died before they could be convicted?  Oswald killed JFK.  The fact that he died before he was convicted in a court doesn't negate the evidence that he was the assassin by even one iota.

The statement has a qualifier included, the word ?technically.?

Offline Rob Caprio

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2019, 11:14:08 PM »
You must have a peculiar interpretation of innocence.  By that standard Hitler, Jack the Ripper, and John Wilkes Booth were are innocent if by that you mean they died before being convicted in a criminal trial. That is absurd.  A criminal trial is not like the hand of God deciding if someone committed an act or not.  Even a not guilty verdict doesn't mean the defendant is innocent.  Do you think there is any doubt that Ruby shot Oswald or that John Wilkes Booth assassinated Lincoln simply because they died before they could be convicted?  Oswald killed JFK.  The fact that he died before he was convicted in a court doesn't negate the evidence that he was the assassin by even one iota.

Comedy gold in bold. Yes, a person who has never cited one piece of supporting evidence for the claim that LHO killed JFK just declared it as a fact. Priceless.

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Re: Common Ground?
« Reply #71 on: May 06, 2019, 11:14:08 PM »