The Three People Walking Across The Pergola Patio

[Royell Storing]

The TRADE MART, that's what TM means and that's what Wiegman claims happened there, he says Atkins and himself were invited to join Lem Johns on a trip to Parkland after Johns found out that the President was hit.  Johns grabbed a cop car at the TM because that's where his driver went first, same thing happened to Wiegman and Atkins, their driver too went straight to the next designated stop.  It's all in POTP(which was written by Trask, the man who claims Darnell took the Sitzman footage, there's the link, like we need one), the CC1 chapter.
B/W footage taken from inside a closed vehicle shows that very car just at the approach to PH, you may have seen it but not recognised it for what it is, it's from Wiegman, he claims he switched cars at the TM and I believe that footage is his and so confirms it.  If I find it again I'll let you know but would you know Wiegman footage from any other?  Might be yet another sidebar, which unless I've missed something are not against the rules here...

     In "Pictures Of The Pain", Trask quotes Wiegman  as to SA Lem Johns piling into Wiegman's Camera Car #1 as it went down Elm St. Per Wiegman, this would put Wiegman and Johns in the Same Car while they were both Still on Elm St inside Dealey Plaza.

[Barry Pollard]

     In "Pictures Of The Pain", Trask quotes Wiegman  as to SA Lem Johns piling into Wiegman's Camera Car #1 as it went down Elm St. Per Wiegman, this would put Wiegman and Johns in the Same Car while they were both Still on Elm St inside Dealey Plaza.

Only in Trask's head(and in yours, mine and hundreds of others who've read the same thing).  But in the real evidence Johns just isn't there, not in Atkins, in Wiegman or Dillard.

Consider this, if a half decent agent commandeered CC1 on that street and at that time, you think the driver would have been allowed to wait for Atkins and his precious brand new camera?  Nup, IMO they would have been gone and I guess in yours too, since you believe Johns reacted to the sound of gunfire.
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And Atkins did not dive head first back into the car, he had to wait for it to fully stop, that's the one and only reason why CC1 is still on Elm after a full minute, and probably twenty seconds after the last Dillard snap.  Atkins had a very expensive brand new camera(imagine an iphone the size of a briefcase, brand new and 100 times more fragile) and was not going to chance breaking it for anyone, especially on an unscheduled stop where he didn't even realise what had actually happened or even why they stopped.  As seen in Couch and as he hints toward to Trask, Atkins hit the GK completely clueless and after being directly at the intersection during "the third shot"™.

[Barry Pollard]

Yes it those three women again and as you already pointed out that is Darnell chasing them, very nice catch, get with it paisan.

As you can see, I expressed an opinion earlier but it's only votes that count, right.  And perhaps one day when we've all understood the significance of identifying these ladies we might just not vote again.  You wanna keep talking about these little girls?  Go right ahead, who is stopping you? TTFN.

[Thomas Graves]

As you can see, I expressed an opinion earlier but it's only votes that count, right.  And perhaps one day when we've all understood the significance of identifying these ladies we might just not vote again.  You wanna keep talking about these little girls?  Go right ahead, who is stopping you? TTFN.

Barry,

The significance of those three women is threefold:

1) In addition to their being filmed up close by Darnell and from a distance by Towner, they were also filmed from behind by Zapruder as they were standing by the Stemmons sign, watching the motorcade.

2)  Contrary to what was once commonly believed, none of those three women are Gloria Calvery. For two reasons: 1) none of them, as we can see in Darnell, look like her, and 2) as can be deduced from the Towner film, none of them ran up to the TSBD steps right after the assassination -- as Calvery did, according to Billy Lovelady and Joe Molina.

3)  Since big, tall Gloria Calvery is none of those women, taking into consideration not only her physiology but the statements she and her three colleagues made to the FBI, it's reasonable to assume that she's the big, tall black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing gal in Zapruder (and on the TSBD steps about 25 seconds after the assassination in Couch-Darnell), instead.

Which has a bearing on the all-important Prayer Person issue, as well as on the post-assassination movements of Bill Shelley, Billy Lovelady, Vicki Adams, and, ultimately, Lee Harvey Oswald.

-- MWT 

[Royell Storing]

Only in Trask's head(and in yours, mine and hundreds of others who've read the same thing).  But in the real evidence Johns just isn't there, not in Atkins, in Wiegman or Dillard.

Consider this, if a half decent agent commandeered CC1 on that street and at that time, you think the driver would have been allowed to wait for Atkins and his precious brand new camera?  Nup, IMO they would have been gone and I guess in yours too, since you believe Johns reacted to the sound of gunfire.
.
And Atkins did not dive head first back into the car, he had to wait for it to fully stop, that's the one and only reason why CC1 is still on Elm after a full minute, and probably twenty seconds after the last Dillard snap.  Atkins had a very expensive brand new camera(imagine an iphone the size of a briefcase, brand new and 100 times more fragile) and was not going to chance breaking it for anyone, especially on an unscheduled stop where he didn't even realise what had actually happened or even why they stopped.  As seen in Couch and as he hints toward to Trask, Atkins hit the GK completely clueless and after being directly at the intersection during "the third shot"™.

  You and I differ as to the Reason SA Johns Lied about jumping out of the LBJ SS Car and then running down Elm St. With Wiegman having seen Johns UP at the Top of the Knoll, Johns and the SS knew they had to cook up a story to at least place Johns Outside of the SS Car after the Kill Shot. The SS probably figured they could quibble as to their claim of Johns staying physically on Elm St vs Wiegman's story of running into John's UP at the Top of the Knoll IF these 2 conflicting accounts was Ever raised. Just my opinion, but I believe that SA Johns was Never seated inside the LBJ SS Follow-Up Car. I believe he was assigned a physical position somewhere inside Dealey Plaza that day. The reason the SS did Not want to admit that Johns was positioned inside Dealey Plaza that day is the Real Mystery. The sighting of a SS Agent on foot inside Dealey Plaza immediately after the Kill Shot by both Law Enforcement and general eyewitnesses has always been categorically denied by the SS. Wiegman having encountered SA Johns at the Top of the Knoll corroborates those reported sightings of an SS Agent on foot inside Dealey Plaza.

[Barry Pollard]

Fair enough

[Barry Pollard]

3)  Since big, tall Gloria Calvery is none of those women, taking into consideration not only her physiology but the statements she and her three colleagues made to the FBI, it's reasonable to assume that she's the big, tall black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing gal in Zapruder (and on the TSBD steps about 25 seconds after the assassination in Couch-Darnell), instead.

Which has a bearing on the all-important Prayer Person issue, as well as on the post-assassination movements of Bill Shelley, Billy Lovelady, Vicki Adams, and, ultimately, Lee Harvey Oswald.

Sorry then, how does the Calvary find effect out understanding of PM in your opinion?

[Thomas Graves]

Sorry then, how does the Calvary find effect our understanding of PM in your opinion?

Barry,

Standing where she was on the north side of Elm Street during the motorcade, big, tall, black-blouse and black-headscarf-wearing Gloria Calvery had a excellent view of the fatal head shot.

Buell Wesley Frazier said that when a crying girl (Calvery) "came by" the steps and announced that JFK had been shot, he and a "Sarah" who was standing near him at the time turned towards each other in astonishment and spoke with each other for a few seconds.

When we compare the orientations of Frazier and Prayer Person in Wiegman, and compare them again about 20 seconds later in Couch-Darnell (in which Calvery can be seen on one of the lower steps talking with Billy Lovelady or... gasp ... Joe Molina), we can see that they (Frazier and Prayer Person) have turned towards each other at some point during the gap between the two films, as though they're speaking with each other about what they've just heard Gloria Calvery bellow out to Lovelady (or Molina), below.

Also, Chris Davidson's image-enhancement work suggests that Prayer Person was either Mary Tyler Moore or Sarah Stanton.

-- MWT