CBS News Inquiry 1967 - Warren Report (Dan Rather carries a rifle package)

[Martin Weidmann]

Stop beating around the bush and get to the point. Do you accept Buell Frazier's testimony about the paper-sack that Oswald claimed contained curtain rods?

Silly question.

I think there isn't a single CT who doesn't accept the fact that Frazier and Randle saw Oswald carry a bag.

The difference of opinion with the LNs is about the size and quality of the bag as well as it's content. That's where LNs start jumping to conclusions they can not support by evidence as well as dismissing some of what Frazier actually said based on the pathetic "he was not paying attention" argument.

[Martin Weidmann]

Salem-like?

Yep

[John Mytton]

and "flimsy paper".

Mr. BALL. Looking at this part of the bag which has not been discolored does that appear similar to the color of the bag you saw Lee carrying that morning?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes; it is a heavy type of wrapping paper.

During Frazier's testimony Frazier tells us that he "didn't pay any attention to it" and "I didn't pay too much attention" and "I didn't pay that much attention to it" and "I didn't look at the package very much, paying much attention" and "I said I didn't pay much attention--"

Mr. BALL - All right.
When you got in the car did you say anything to him or did he say anything to you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Let's see, when I got in the car I have a kind of habit of glancing over my shoulder and so at that time I noticed there was a package laying on the back seat, I didn't pay too much attention and I said, "What's the package, Lee?"
And he said, "Curtain rods," and I said, "Oh, yes, you told me you was going to bring some today."
That is the reason, the main reason he was going over there that Thursday afternoon when he was to bring back some curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about it when he told me that.

Mr. BALL - Did it look to you as if there was something heavy in the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I didn't pay much attention to the package because like I say before and after he told me that it was curtain rods and I didn't pay any attention to it, and he never had lied to me before so I never did have any reason to doubt his word.

Mr. BALL - Well, from the way he carried it, the way he walked, did it appear he was carrying something that had more than the weight of a paper?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I say, you know like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all.

Mr. BALL - You will notice that this bag which is the colored bag, FBI Exhibit No. 10, is folded over. Was it folded over when you saw it the first time, folded over to the end?
Mr. FRAZIER - I will say I am not sure about that, whether it was folded over or not, because, like I say, I didn't pay that much attention to it.

Mr. BALL - But are you sure that his hand was at the end of the package or at the side of the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Like I said, I remember I didn't look at the package very much, paying much attention, but when I did look at it he did have his hands on the package like that.

Mr. BALL - Mr. Frazier, we have here this Exhibit No. 364 which is a sack and in that we have put a dismantled gun. Don't pay any attention to that. Will you stand up here and put this under your arm and then take a hold of it at the side?
Now, is that anywhere near similar to the way that Oswald carried the package?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, you know, like I said now, I said I didn't pay much attention--

JohnM

[Colin Crow]

Why do you selectively accept what those two witnesses said?

Because Buell Frazier and Linnie May Randle saw Oswald's long bag on 22 November 2019. They testified about the "paper-sack" under oath to the Warren Commission.

Why don't YOU accept the statements of these two (2) witnesses?

Stop this silliness John (the devil's advocate) and make a proper contribution to the Forum.

Buell Wesley Frazier was indirectly responsible for the employment of LHO at the TSBD. He was known to other employees to have provided a regular lift to and from work to LHO. He was stated to be Oswald's closest associate at the TSBD by other employees.

At about 1.20pm, just before the discovery of the rifle, Will Fritz told Detective Stenkel on the 6th floor of the TSBD to collect all those employees who had worked there that day and take them to City Hall to make statements. Subsequently Williams, Arce and Shelley were taken in one car and Lovelady and Dougherty in another. All were part of the "floor laying" crew except Dougherty who was preforming order filling duties that day (as was Oswald), but had been on the 6th floor. Charles Givens was also part of the crew but was outside the building and therefore not taken at that time. Frazier had also been on the 6th floor that day but did not go to City Hall with the others. Instead he exited the building, possibly around 2pm or so. At this time he obviously knew the 6th floor of the TSBD was suspected as the place the assassin fired from.

Lt Day leaves the building with the rifle at 2pm.

Detectives Rose, Stovall and Adamcek accompanied by Deputy Sheriffs Walthers, Weatherford and Oxford met with Ruth and Marina at the Paine's home before 2.42pm.
I believe Oswald was first named on radio or TV about 2.42pm. Oswald's boarding house phone number is conveyed to Fritz from the Paine's for cross checking . 

A long bag was removed from the TSBD by Detective Montgomery at 3pm and taken to HQ. I believe it had been in police presence since some time between 1.30 and 2pm.

Linnie May visited the Paine's to inform the detectives that she had seen Oswald that morning. She spoke with Det Adamcek. This occurred after the Paine children were taken to neighbours and the police car had been used to store evidence from the garage. Likely well after 3pm and possibly as late as 5pm.

Irving police sent to detain Frazier at the Irving hospital by Det Rose after he is finally tracked down. McCabe detains Frazier, visiting his step-father about 5.15pm. Rose and Stovall arrest Frazier about 5.30pm.

[Ross Lidell]

Buell Wesley Frazier was indirectly responsible for the employment of LHO at the TSBD. He was known to other employees to have provided a regular lift to and from work to LHO. He was stated to be Oswald's closest associate at the TSBD by other employees.

At about 1.20pm, just before the discovery of the rifle, Will Fritz told Detective Stenkel on the 6th floor of the TSBD to collect all those employees who had worked there that day and take them to City Hall to make statements. Subsequently Williams, Arce and Shelley were taken in one car and Lovelady and Dougherty in another. All were part of the "floor laying" crew except Dougherty who was preforming order filling duties that day (as was Oswald), but had been on the 6th floor. Charles Givens was also part of the crew but was outside the building and therefore not taken at that time. Frazier had also been on the 6th floor that day but did not go to City Hall with the others. Instead he exited the building, possibly around 2pm or so. At this time he obviously knew the 6th floor of the TSBD was suspected as the place the assassin fired from.

Lt Day leaves the building with the rifle at 2pm.

Detectives Rose, Stovall and Adamcek accompanied by Deputy Sheriffs Walthers, Weatherford and Oxford met with Ruth and Marina at the Paine's home before 2.42pm.
I believe Oswald was first named on radio or TV about 2.42pm. Oswald's boarding house phone number is conveyed to Fritz from the Paine's for cross checking . 

A long bag was removed from the TSBD by Detective Montgomery at 3pm and taken to HQ. I believe it had been in police presence since some time between 1.30 and 2pm.

Linnie May visited the Paine's to inform the detectives that she had seen Oswald that morning. She spoke with Det Adamcek. This occurred after the Paine children were taken to neighbours and the police car had been used to store evidence from the garage. Likely well after 3pm and possibly as late as 5pm.

Irving police sent to detain Frazier at the Irving hospital by Det Rose after he is finally tracked down. McCabe detains Frazier, visiting his step-father about 5.15pm. Rose and Stovall arrest Frazier about 5.30pm.

That's a thoughtful narrative constructed from events which have been carefully researched. It adds clarity to when, how and why Buell Frazier was arrested by the Dallas PD and subsequently given a "deluxe" interrogation. That's what it was according to what Buell has said in interviews in recent years. Undoubtedly the harsh treatment by Fritz and his subordinates has left emotional scars that have never healed. Despite that: Buell has not recanted his testimony before the Warren Commission and statements made for the 1964 Television documentary "CBS News Extra - November 22nd and the Warren Report".

Colin: You did post a reply to my original SUBJECT before it was lost when the Forum was hacked. Could you repeat that comment even if it's not word-for-word?

[Colin Crow]

That's a thoughtful narrative constructed from events which have been carefully researched. It adds clarity to when, how and why Buell Frazier was arrested by the Dallas PD and subsequently given a "deluxe" interrogation. That's what it was according to what Buell has said in interviews in recent years. Undoubtedly the harsh treatment by Fritz and his subordinates has left emotional scars that have never healed. Despite that: Buell has not recanted his testimony before the Warren Commission and statements made for the 1964 Television documentary "CBS News Extra - November 22nd and the Warren Report".

Colin: You did post a reply to my original SUBJECT before it was lost when the Forum was hacked. Could you repeat that comment even if it's not word-for-word?

Thanks Ross, I would love to repost but I have no idea what it was......any clues and my failing memory might recover enough to comply.

[John Iacoletti]

"Curtain rods"...what happened to the curtain rods. If Oswald claimed he had curtain rods in the bag, where they ever found.

Possibly.

https://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1753.msg46762.html#msg46762

Obviously not. Because it was a lie to cover up the fact that the bag contained the MC.

Easy to claim.  A lot harder to prove with evidence.

Obviously taking the MC into the TSBD does not prove Oswald was the shooter but Oswald owned an MC,

Also easy to claim.

[Richard Smith]

Buell Wesley Frazier was indirectly responsible for the employment of LHO at the TSBD. He was known to other employees to have provided a regular lift to and from work to LHO. He was stated to be Oswald's closest associate at the TSBD by other employees.

At about 1.20pm, just before the discovery of the rifle, Will Fritz told Detective Stenkel on the 6th floor of the TSBD to collect all those employees who had worked there that day and take them to City Hall to make statements. Subsequently Williams, Arce and Shelley were taken in one car and Lovelady and Dougherty in another. All were part of the "floor laying" crew except Dougherty who was preforming order filling duties that day (as was Oswald), but had been on the 6th floor. Charles Givens was also part of the crew but was outside the building and therefore not taken at that time. Frazier had also been on the 6th floor that day but did not go to City Hall with the others. Instead he exited the building, possibly around 2pm or so. At this time he obviously knew the 6th floor of the TSBD was suspected as the place the assassin fired from.

Lt Day leaves the building with the rifle at 2pm.

Detectives Rose, Stovall and Adamcek accompanied by Deputy Sheriffs Walthers, Weatherford and Oxford met with Ruth and Marina at the Paine's home before 2.42pm.
I believe Oswald was first named on radio or TV about 2.42pm. Oswald's boarding house phone number is conveyed to Fritz from the Paine's for cross checking . 

A long bag was removed from the TSBD by Detective Montgomery at 3pm and taken to HQ. I believe it had been in police presence since some time between 1.30 and 2pm.

Linnie May visited the Paine's to inform the detectives that she had seen Oswald that morning. She spoke with Det Adamcek. This occurred after the Paine children were taken to neighbours and the police car had been used to store evidence from the garage. Likely well after 3pm and possibly as late as 5pm.

Irving police sent to detain Frazier at the Irving hospital by Det Rose after he is finally tracked down. McCabe detains Frazier, visiting his step-father about 5.15pm. Rose and Stovall arrest Frazier about 5.30pm.

It would be helpful to add when Frazier called his sister.  I don't recall the exact time or if that has ever been determined.  Frazier's story, as I recall from his later interviews, was that he heard something about a Lee Oswald, who had spent time in Russia, being arrested as a suspect on the radio while he is driving to the hospital.  He claims that he didn't know the last name of the "Lee" that worked at the TSBD but had some knowledge that his Lee had spent time in Russia. So at that point he has an idea it might be his Lee but claims uncertainty.  That might be the source of his surprise when the police arrive to take him in.  Something that most people would expect to happen if they drove the suspected assassin that morning to the TSBD.  It would be interesting, however, to know if Buell talked to his sister before or after she had any conversation with the police or came to know that Lee was the suspect.  I assume that is the case since the information about his whereabouts would have come from his sister.  My speculation is that she gave him some advice on this call based on her understanding that the suspected assassin was the guy he had driven that morning.  And that advice was to downplay any suspicion or observation of Oswald's behavior that morning.  Thus, the bag becomes shorter, no discussion with Oswald of the president's visit, and hardly a glace at the bag in the shape of a rifle.  Just a couple of good old boys quietly riding to work in the rain.  Not implying that Frazier had anything to do with the assassination.  Just that he wanted to deflect any later claims that perhaps a more reasonably observant person might have been a bit more suspicious of a guy carrying a strange, rifle shaped object into the building on a day when the president was supposed to drive by.