CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?

[Zeon Mason]

Ok Walt, you got a point there depending what kind of wooden palette

I was envisioning a palette that’s got about 4” space made from 2x4 s thru witch a rifle could be placed regardless how many boxes stacked on the upper platform

Do you have a photo of what type wooden palette was there on the 6th floor TBDS?

if it’s just  1x4 overlapping board type then. I’m in agreement that it would be difficult to quickly wedge rifle all the way underneath and probably would require removing boxes to lighten the load to do so

[Jerry Freeman]

A glitch in the timeline....

January 28, 1962: LHO orders a .38 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver by mail.
 Should be [if it indeed happened] 1963
 March 9-10, 1963: LHO takes photographs of the home of General Edwin Walker, a right wing activist.
March 12, 1963: Ruth Paine visits Marina at the new apartment. Also that day, LHO orders a rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago.
March 20, 1963: The rifle and the revolver are shipped
March 25, 1963: LHO picks up the weapons   

Notice the remarkable 'coincidence' that the pistol [supposedly ordered two months before the rifle was] was shipped and then claimed on respectively the very same day as the rifle.
What are the chances of this?
Also note that presumably...Lee goes over to take pictures at General Walker's before any rifle to shoot him with ever arrives.
Why in hell take pictures anyway? What purpose would it serve?

[Tim Nickerson]

A glitch in the timeline....Notice the remarkable 'coincidence' that the pistol [supposedly ordered two months before the rifle was] was shipped and then claimed on respectively the very same day as the rifle.
What are the chances of this?
Also note that presumably...Lee goes over to take pictures at General Walker's before any rifle to shoot him with ever arrives.
Why in hell take pictures anyway? What purpose would it serve?

The revolver was not ordered two months before the rifle was.  Jan 27, 1963 was the date that Oswald filled out the coupon, not the date that he mailed it.

[Walt Cakebread]

A glitch in the timeline....Notice the remarkable 'coincidence' that the pistol [supposedly ordered two months before the rifle was] was shipped and then claimed on respectively the very same day as the rifle.
What are the chances of this?
Also note that presumably...Lee goes over to take pictures at General Walker's before any rifle to shoot him with ever arrives.
Why in hell take pictures anyway? What purpose would it serve?

When seen in the "blue notebook " dossier that Lee created along with the BY photo and maps of the area near Walker's house the photo would serve to convince any viewer that Lee had been stalking Walker and planning to ambush him .   And that was the crux of the plot.... The bullet hole in Walker's window was intended to be mute evidence that someone had tried to kill Walker ( a very vocal foe of Fidel Castro)    Lee had created the false dossier with the idea that the police would trace the rifle ( which he had left for the police to find)   reminds one of the TSBD sixth floor !    Lee had planned to be a "fugitive" and on his way to Cuba when the police discovered the blue note book with the BY photo (CE 133A) and the photo of Walker's house in it.   

The plot never blossomed because the police didn't fall for the nonsense that Walker spewed......

[Walt Cakebread]

Ok Walt, you got a point there depending what kind of wooden palette

I was envisioning a palette that’s got about 4” space made from 2x4 s thru witch a rifle could be placed regardless how many boxes stacked on the upper platform

Do you have a photo of what type wooden palette was there on the 6th floor TBDS?

if it’s just  1x4 overlapping board type then. I’m in agreement that it would be difficult to quickly wedge rifle all the way underneath and probably would require removing boxes to lighten the load to do so

Ok Walt, you got a point there

Thank you, Z....    But I hope you aren't simply taking my word....Have you seen Detective Studebaker's map of the sixth floor?    Studebaker measured the distance from the North Wall to the rifle on the floor, and recorded that distance as 15 feet 4 inches.   Since the aisle at the top of the stairs, that Lee would have had to pass through was approximately 10 feet from the north wall, he would have had to have reached across five feet and down four feet to place the eight pound rifle beneath the stack of boxes of books.    DO YOU BELIEVE THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN POSSIBLE???

[Tim Nickerson]

Map showing steps started about 10' 6" from North wall. First row of boxes begin about 14' 3" from steps.

Note first row of boxes southward from steps. South is towards viewer. Boxes in foreground at greater height were on a wood pallet.

Rifle located immediately south of first row of boxes southward from steps. Simple matter to reach over that row of boxes to place rifle on floor.

Looking at the map in GIMP, the center of the aisle that Lee would have had to pass through was about four feet from where the rifle was found. If Oswald was reaching when he placed the rifle, the distance would have been less than that. It don't know what Walt means by "down four feet".

[Walt Cakebread]

Map showing steps started about 10' 6" from North wall. First row of boxes begin about 14' 3" from steps.

Note first row of boxes southward from steps. South is towards viewer. Boxes in foreground at greater height were on a wood pallet.

Rifle located immediately south of first row of boxes southward from steps. Simple matter to reach over that row of boxes to place rifle on floor.

Notice that Studebaker measured the wooden support beam at 9 1/2 inches......And the south side of the beam at the NW corner was 13 feet from the north wall.and north side of the row of boxes was 13 feet from the north wall.    So if a person were to reach across to place the rifle on the floor at 15' 4" he would be reaching across over two feet of space.  ( a 5' 9" man has an arm length of 22 inches.)  But not only would the man need to reach across over two feet he would need to put the eight pound rifle down about three feet ....  Is there anybody who believes that this feat is possible??   

[Tim Nickerson]

Walt just went from "down four feet" to "over two feet". Some of this is stuff in his mind that he can picture but can't effectively communicate.



This policeman shows how someone could lean over the row of low-height boxes and place the rifle. Might have put an elbow on top of a box so as to reach the floor.

Looking from West to East. Row nearest to stairway at camera-left. Rifle removed. Tall stacks of pallleted book cartons at camera-right.

Looking from North to South. Rifle had to be lifted over row of boxes in foreground to be lowered to floor. The boxes there (three at camera-left foreground) were only stacked two-high.

I'm sure that I've seen those two bottom photos before but I never realized that they were of the location of where the rifle was found. Looking at the one on the left, it's plain to see how foolish Walt's claim is. Of course , it's possible that he's been a frail weakling himself all of his life and can't imagine how a 24 year old guy could have managed to handle an 8 lb rifle the way that Oswald did.