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Author Topic: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?  (Read 165249 times)

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #808 on: October 30, 2022, 01:18:00 PM »
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Oswald's rifle was discovered on the 6th floor, how did it get there?

Is this intended as a serious question? I take it you are unaware of the new evidence regarding Oswald's whereabouts during the shooting? Most of it is summarized very well in Oliver Stone's new documentary JFK Revisited.

Here's an exhaustive review of this new evidence:


Here's a question for you: Why is the rifle that Lt. Day was photographed carrying out of the TSBD obviously different from the rifle seen in the backyard rifle photos? In the backyard photos rifle, the strap is attached to the heel of the stock, but the rifle that Day carried out of the TSBD has a strap ring in the stock and the strap is attached in the stock. What gives?

Here's another question: Why is the wedding ring of the figure in the backyard rifle photos on the left hand in one picture but on the right hand in another? Are we supposed to believe that some reason the figure decided to take off his wedding ring and put it on the other hand in between the photos?

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #808 on: October 30, 2022, 01:18:00 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #809 on: October 30, 2022, 06:19:54 PM »
Is this intended as a serious question? I take it you are unaware of the new evidence regarding Oswald's whereabouts during the shooting? Most of it is summarized very well in Oliver Stone's new documentary JFK Revisited.

Here's an exhaustive review of this new evidence:

Griffith's an Alt-Right MAGA apologist who wanders in here after he gets tired of the beatings he suffers at the "other" Forum.

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Here's a question for you: Why is the rifle that Lt. Day was photographed carrying out of the TSBD obviously different from the rifle seen in the backyard rifle photos? In the backyard photos rifle, the strap is attached to the heel of the stock, but the rifle that Day carried out of the TSBD has a strap ring in the stock and the strap is attached in the stock. What gives?

I don't know where they get this stuff. Do you? The heel-end of the strap is attached in different places on the rifle?

     
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Here's another question: Why is the wedding ring of the figure in the backyard rifle photos on the left hand in one picture but on the right hand in another? Are we supposed to believe that some reason the figure decided to take off his wedding ring and put it on the other hand in between the photos?

Answered over a year ago: ( Link )

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #810 on: October 30, 2022, 07:41:28 PM »
Griffith's an Alt-Right MAGA apologist who wanders in here after he gets tired of the beatings he suffers at the "other" Forum.

I've corrected you on this before, but you just keep lying about it. I'm neither "Alt-Right" nor a Trump apologist. I've defended many of Trump's policies but have strongly criticized his conduct and have publicly declared many times that I hope he doesn't run again.

And, pray tell, in what other forum do I allegedly suffer "beatings"? The only other JFK forum I post in is the Education Forum's JFK Assassination Debate forum, which is dominated by WC critics with whom I agree the vast majority of the time on all matters pertaining to JFK's death. You're just making up stuff again.

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I don't know where they get this stuff. Do you? The heel-end of the strap is attached in different places on the rifle?

Go watch the segment on this in JFK Revisited and look at the high-quality enlargements. Denying the problem won't make it go away.

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Answered over a year ago: ( Link )

And Galbraith's answer is still nonsense. He's using a poor version of 133-A, which shows the worst view of the ring on the right hand (if it shows the ring at all), as the comparison to 133-C to try to fool people into believing there were two rings. But if you look at 133-B, which shows a much clearer view of the ring on the right hand, you can see that it's the same ring as the ring on the left hand in 133-C. Just go watch the segment on this in JFK Revisited.

It's interesting to note that the HSCA's Photographic Evidence Panel (PEP) did not attempt to address this issue, even though Jack White and others had raised it. The PEP answered every other argument that White made about the backyard photos, but they oddly said nothing about this one.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2022, 08:14:40 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #810 on: October 30, 2022, 07:41:28 PM »


Offline Jerry Organ

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #811 on: October 30, 2022, 11:33:20 PM »
I've corrected you on this before, but you just keep lying about it. I'm neither "Alt-Right" nor a Trump apologist. I've defended many of Trump's policies but have strongly criticized his conduct and have publicly declared many times that I hope he doesn't run again.

There's "Do as I say" and "Do as I do". You voted wholeheartedly for Trump twice, and will a third time. And you express Far Right views all the time.

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And, pray tell, in what other forum do I allegedly suffer "beatings"? The only other JFK forum I post in is the Education Forum's JFK Assassination Debate forum, which is dominated by WC critics with whom I agree the vast majority of the time on all matters pertaining to JFK's death. You're just making up stuff again.

You're gaslighting, like a true Trump Republican.

    "You really do ally yourself with the LeMay camp.  You really wanted
      an all out WW2 style war in Vietnam.  In other words, if you have to
      do a Dresden type bombing of Hanoi, fine.  If you want to firebomb
      Haiphong, fine.    If you want to invade Laos and Cambodia fine."
               -- James DiEugenio

    "This is not new. Revise all you like, but it won't work. Quoting self-
     interested parties decades after the fact blaming our debacle on the
     "anti-war" crowd or Congressional Democrats is incredibly weak sauce."
               -- Paul Jolliffe

    "Don't you understand anything about Vietnam Mike?"
               -- James DiEugenio

    "This VW loss was due to left-wing media? Some newspaper headlines
     and a CBS special? This does not hold water.
               -- Benjamin Cole

    "It's just something that a tiny percentage of pretend "conservatives"
     cling to so they can delude themselves into thinking they are "real men"
     and that only "pussy Democrats" lose wars. It's total garbage, and
     indicative of the bubble some wish to hide in."
               -- Pat Speer

    "Michael's Operation Linebacker argument is straight out of Craig
     Roberts' pro-conspiracy Kill Zone book from '94. I'm assuming you've
     read that one, Michael, am I right? If so, would you say he's right about
     everything right up to when he starts pushing Rothschild conspiracies in
     chapter 19... or do you think he's onto something with that too?"
               -- James Wilkinson

    "You've lost the debate if you refuse to engage with our counterarguments
     and instead simply continue defaulting to repeating summaries of Vietnam's
     post-war human rights violations, like a chatbot with a limited script. You're also
     ignoring direct questions about whether you've read Kill Zone and subscribe to
     his Rothschild conspiracy theories."
               -- James Wilkinson

    "Michael either doesn’t understand basic critical thinking, or he does and uses
     logical fallacies knowingly. Basically it’s straw man."
               -- Paul Brancato

Quote
Go watch the segment on this in JFK Revisited and look at the high-quality enlargements. Denying the problem won't make it go away.

And Galbraith's answer is still nonsense. He's using a poor version of 133-A, which shows the worst view of the ring on the right hand (if it shows the ring at all), as the comparison to 133-C to try to fool people into believing there were two rings. But if you look at 133-B, which shows a much clearer view of the ring on the right hand, you can see that it's the same ring as the ring on the left hand in 133-C. Just go watch the segment on this in JFK Revisited.

 

Is this one of those issues your CT "buddies" lap up and agree with you on?

The wedding ring on the right hand in 133-A doesn't cast a full shadow because of its angle to the sun. Notice how the right forearm in 133-A is sun-struck.

Compare with the same ring on the same hand in 133-B. Because the ring on the right hand is now more oblique toward the sun, the ring casts a full shadow onto the finger. Notice how the right forearm in 133-B is now no longer sun-struck because it is now angled oblique to the sun.

It's the same ring in 133-A and 133-B; just that the ring in 133-B projects a shadow that falls onto the width of the finger. This merely gives the ring a sense of depth lacking in 133-A.

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It's interesting to note that the HSCA's Photographic Evidence Panel (PEP) did not attempt to address this issue, even though Jack White and others had raised it. The PEP answered every other argument that White made about the backyard photos, but they oddly said nothing about this one.

Jack White presented this issue to the HSCA? Seems pretty easy to refute. Can you show us where White presented the issue to the Photographic Evidence Panel?

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #812 on: November 01, 2022, 09:27:15 PM »
There's "Do as I say" and "Do as I do". You voted wholeheartedly for Trump twice, and will a third time. And you express Far Right views all the time.

You're a bald-faced liar. As I've explained to you before, I voted for Trump reluctantly; Trump was not even in my top three picks among GOP primary candidates; and I've been very critical of Trump's personal conduct in many forums. But don't let truth or facts get in your way.

My "Far Right" views?! Yeah, like my support for affirmative action, my support for Obamacare, my support for universal health insurance, my support for red flag laws, my support for a pathway to legal status for illegal immigrants, my support for full legal status for Dreamers, my support for the infrastructure bill that Biden signed, etc., etc., etc.? The problem is you're a left-wing wingnut who has no regard for truth and who regards anyone who votes for a candidate you don't like as "far right."

You're gaslighting, like a true Trump Republican.

    "You really do ally yourself with the LeMay camp.  You really wanted
      an all out WW2 style war in Vietnam.  In other words, if you have to
      do a Dresden type bombing of Hanoi, fine.  If you want to firebomb
      Haiphong, fine.    If you want to invade Laos and Cambodia fine."
               -- James DiEugenio

    "This is not new. Revise all you like, but it won't work. Quoting self-
     interested parties decades after the fact blaming our debacle on the
     "anti-war" crowd or Congressional Democrats is incredibly weak sauce."
               -- Paul Jolliffe

    "Don't you understand anything about Vietnam Mike?"
               -- James DiEugenio

    "This VW loss was due to left-wing media? Some newspaper headlines
     and a CBS special? This does not hold water.
               -- Benjamin Cole

    "It's just something that a tiny percentage of pretend "conservatives"
     cling to so they can delude themselves into thinking they are "real men"
     and that only "pussy Democrats" lose wars. It's total garbage, and
     indicative of the bubble some wish to hide in."
               -- Pat Speer

    "Michael's Operation Linebacker argument is straight out of Craig
     Roberts' pro-conspiracy Kill Zone book from '94. I'm assuming you've
     read that one, Michael, am I right? If so, would you say he's right about
     everything right up to when he starts pushing Rothschild conspiracies in
     chapter 19... or do you think he's onto something with that too?"
               -- James Wilkinson

    "You've lost the debate if you refuse to engage with our counterarguments
     and instead simply continue defaulting to repeating summaries of Vietnam's
     post-war human rights violations, like a chatbot with a limited script. You're also
     ignoring direct questions about whether you've read Kill Zone and subscribe to
     his Rothschild conspiracy theories."
               -- James Wilkinson

    "Michael either doesn’t understand basic critical thinking, or he does and uses
     logical fallacies knowingly. Basically it’s straw man."
               -- Paul Brancato

Is this one of those issues your CT "buddies" lap up and agree with you on?

Wow, just how gutter dishonest can you get? Sheesh, what dishonest trash.

One, I blew those people out of the water in the thread from which you're cherry-picking. Funny how you didn't quote any of my replies, where I pointed out the many statements they made that showed they had no clue what they were talking about. Folks, by all means, go to the JFK Assassination Debate forum in The Education Forum and read that thread on Oliver Stone's New JFK Documentaries and the Vietnam War, and you'll see how dishonest Jerry Organ's cherry-picking is, not to mention that I thoroughly refuted the replies of the people he's quoted.

Two, why didn't you quote any of the people in the thread who agreed with me, hey? Why did you only select the handful of ultra-liberals who disagreed with me? Answer: Because you're a liar.

Three, why didn't you quote from any of the two dozen or so other threads in that forum where nearly all conspiracy theorists agreed with me? Why did you pick just that one thread and only pick comments regarding the Vietnam War? You cherry-picked so dishonestly because that's what you do all the time here.

Four, why did you ignore the fact that when I talked about how most people agreed with me in that forum, I specifically said they agreed with me about the JFK assassination. The statements you just quoted all involve the Vietnam War.

The wedding ring on the right hand in 133-A doesn't cast a full shadow because of its angle to the sun. Notice how the right forearm in 133-A is sun-struck.

Compare with the same ring on the same hand in 133-B. Because the ring on the right hand is now more oblique toward the sun, the ring casts a full shadow onto the finger. Notice how the right forearm in 133-B is now no longer sun-struck because it is now angled oblique to the sun.

It's the same ring in 133-A and 133-B; just that the ring in 133-B projects a shadow that falls onto the width of the finger. This merely gives the ring a sense of depth lacking in 133-A.

Oh, of course. Yeah, you bet. It's the sun, the angle, a shadow, etc. Hogwash. You see what is not there because you have to see it.

Furthermore, you ignored the point that the ring in 133-B is clearly the same ring in 133-C but that it's on a different hand in the two photos. Did you just forget to address that key point?

By the way, where in 133-A do we see the ring on his left hand that we see on his left hand in 133-C? Where is it? Are you going to say the sun makes it vanish too? Why is there no ring on his left hand in 133-A? How did this large, obvious ring on the left hand in 133-C vanish in 133-A? Pray tell.

Jack White presented this issue to the HSCA? Seems pretty easy to refute. Can you show us where White presented the issue to the Photographic Evidence Panel?

Can you ever stop twisting and distorting? Did I say that White presented this issue to the HSCA? No, I did not. But you set up another dishonest strawman and proceeded from there, as you are wont to do.

The HSCA PEP did not limit their reply to what White had said in his HSCA presentation. The PEP responded to what critics had said in articles published in other sources. The ring contradiction had been raised by a number of critics. Yet, the HSCA chose to remain silent on the subject, even though, according to your delusions, it should have been low-hanging fruit.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2022, 09:18:16 PM by Michael T. Griffith »

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #812 on: November 01, 2022, 09:27:15 PM »


Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #813 on: November 02, 2022, 03:10:51 AM »

Here's another question: Why is the wedding ring of the figure in the backyard rifle photos on the left hand in one picture but on the right hand in another? Are we supposed to believe that some reason the figure decided to take off his wedding ring and put it on the other hand in between the photos?

Clearly there is a ring visible, on the right hand, on the fourth finger, in both photos, CE-133-A and CE-133-B.

Speaking of the ring on the right hand:

One ring in both the photos
One ring that ties them
One ring is in brightest sunlight
The other has a shadow

Offline Joe Elliott

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #814 on: November 02, 2022, 03:18:23 AM »

Griffith's an Alt-Right MAGA apologist who wanders in here after he gets tired of the beatings he suffers at the "other" Forum.

I've corrected you on this before, but you just keep lying about it. I'm neither "Alt-Right" nor a Trump apologist. I've defended many of Trump's policies but have strongly criticized his conduct and have publicly declared many times that I hope he doesn't run again.

I think Jerry is right. Come 2024, Michael will be arguing that Trump is the best option. I think Michael argues against Trump now to gain credibility. But when it counts, in 2024, he will be back to supporting Trump.

Offline Michael T. Griffith

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Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #815 on: November 02, 2022, 09:32:57 AM »
Clearly there is a ring visible, on the right hand, on the fourth finger, in both photos, CE-133-A and CE-133-B.

Speaking of the ring on the right hand:

One ring in both the photos
One ring that ties them
One ring is in brightest sunlight
The other has a shadow

Do you the see the Tooth Fairy in 133-A as well? How about an alien? I mean, if you're going to see whatever you need to see, why stop with a ring?

Furthermore, you, like Jerry, are simply ignoring the key point that the ring in 133-B is clearly and plainly the same ring in 133-C but that it's on a different hand in those photos. It's on the right hand in B but on the left hand in C.

I think Jerry is right. Come 2024, Michael will be arguing that Trump is the best option. I think Michael argues against Trump now to gain credibility. But when it counts, in 2024, he will be back to supporting Trump.

If you think Jerry Organ is right, then you're as dishonest as he is. What liars you people are. You can go to the USMB or the ISF forum and check my posts on Trum going back to 2016 and see he was my fourth pick among the GOP candidates. You will also see that I have severely criticized his conduct for years and that I have repeatedly said that I hope he does not run in 2024. I've gotten into some heated exchanges with ardent Trump supporters for saying these things. But, don't let facts or the truth stop you.

When you review those posts of mine, you can also readily verify that I am not "Far Right" or "Alt-Right." You will see that I have defended Obamacare, supported universal health insurance, supported red flag laws, supported a pathway to legal status for illegal immigrants, supported full legal status for Dreamers, supported the infrastructure bill that most Republicans voted against, supported most forms of affirmative action, supported restricting rifle ownership to 21 and above, etc., etc. People who are far right and alt-right view those positions as heresy, FYI.

Now, if it's a choice between Cognitive Decline Joe Biden and Donald Trump in 2024, yes, absolutely, I will hold my nose and reluctantly vote for Trump as the lesser of two bad choices, as will many other Independents and centrist Republicans, only because we feel that Biden has done a bad job in too many areas, such as inflation rates that we haven't seen in decades, sky-rocketing food and gas prices, trying to ram transgenderism down the throats of schools and businesses, undoing the very successful regulatory reforms of 2016-2020, etc., etc.

JFK Assassination Forum

Re: CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?
« Reply #815 on: November 02, 2022, 09:32:57 AM »