CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?

[John Iacoletti]

You really think the sitting president and commander-in-chief would stage an "insurrection" by sending a random group of hillbillies to the Capitol?

Absolutely.

[Martin Weidmann]

That is tin foil hat nonsense.  Trump left office after the last election.  He is almost as old as Joe Biden at this point but he is going to establish "a permanent regime."  Wow.  Not even sure what that means.  That Trump is immortal?   Maybe take a break from MSNBC and watch something more factual like "Ancient Aliens."

That is tin foil hat nonsense.  Trump left office after the last election.

What a pathetic comment. What else was Trump going to do? Stay there, after all his efforts to overthrow the election had failed? If he had not left the White House he would have been thrown out.

[Jonathan Nolan]

Interesting that the original thread about evidence and explaining the presence of the mannlicher carcano descended into off topic twaddle about the current deep state civil war. Hopefully this is not typical. If it is, it is highly suspicious given that many of the same families who participated in the JFK murder plot still hold power today.

To answer the original question, the rifle was brought to the building by the same team who included the shooter on the roof of the TSBD.

It isn't enough to simply scoff at alternate suggestions by the way. And in terms of the "mountains of evidence" all of it was tainted beyond usability in court when it was taken away by the FBI, breaking the chain of custody established in Dallas. Given the notoriety of FBI evidence falsification that has come to light in the decades since, it is easily understood as to why the break in the chain of evidence would make it unusable.

[Martin Weidmann]

Interesting that the original thread about evidence and explaining the presence of the mannlicher carcano descended into off topic twaddle about the current deep state civil war. Hopefully this is not typical. If it is, it is highly suspicious given that many of the same families who participated in the JFK murder plot still hold power today.

To answer the original question, the rifle was brought to the building by the same team who included the shooter on the roof of the TSBD.

It isn't enough to simply scoff at alternate suggestions by the way. And in terms of the "mountains of evidence" all of it was tainted beyond usability in court when it was taken away by the FBI, breaking the chain of custody established in Dallas. Given the notoriety of FBI evidence falsification that has come to light in the decades since, it is easily understood as to why the break in the chain of evidence would make it unusable.

To answer the original question, the rifle was brought to the building by the same team who included the shooter on the roof of the TSBD.

Now that you have answered the original question, what kind of evidence do you have to back it up?

[Jonathan Nolan]

"Oswald Never Purchased a Mail Order Rifle
The Postal Money Order allegedly used to purchase the rifle that supposedly killed JFK is perhaps the most unexplainable document published by the Warren Commission. A quick look at this money order (see DOCUMENT link below) shows that it was never deposited nor cashed at a bank. It does not have a single bank stamp on the front or reverse side. Yet the WC wants us to believe that this uncashed, never-deposited money order was used to purchase the rifle that supposedly killed President Kennedy. All monetary instruments deposited to banks or financial institutions (1962-63) were stamped by the bank into which the item was deposited, stamped by a correspondent bank, and stamped by the originating bank or institution when the item was returned. A US Postal Money Order (PMO) purchased in Dallas, TX, and sent to Kleins Sporting Goods in Chicago, would have been date-stamped when deposited to their bank (First National Bank of Chicago). The PMO would have been stamped a second time after passing through a correspondent bank and/or the Federal Reserve System. Finally the PMO would have been stamped a third time when returned to Federal Postal Money Order Center (FPMOC) in Kansas City. But the money order given to the Warren Commission did not have a single bank endorsement stamp and was not found at the FPMOC in Kansas City. The absence of date-stamped bank endorsements means this PMO was never deposited to a bank nor cashed by Kleins Sporting Goods. Yet we are supposed to believe that Klein's Sporting Goods shipped a rifle to Oswald in Dallas, TX and that he used this rifle to kill JFK.

This never deposited money order first appeared in the hands of Robert Jackson, an employee of the Federal Records Center, who lived in Alexandria, VA. Neither Mr. Jackson nor any employee of the Federal Records Center was questioned about the money order by the FBI or Warren Commission or HSCA or the Secret Service. At 9:35 PM (11/23/63) Jackson hand delivered this money order to J. Harold Marks, a Finance Officer for the US Postal Service, at his home in Arlington, VA. The initials that appear on the back of this money order were made by Jackson, Marks, and other Federal officials who took possession of the money order. The Secret Service made 5 photostats of this money order and sent the photostats to Dallas. The following day (11/24/63), at 10:00 AM, Secret Service Agent Grimes gave the original PMO to the FBI, and the money order soon vanished. The Warren Commission accepted photostats of this money order as "proof" that Oswald purchased this mail-order rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago. Apparently, not a single member of the WC nor its attorneys nor staff questioned the authenticity of this money order nor questioned the absence of a single bank stamp/endorsement.  To verify the authenticity and bank routing of this PMO, the Warren Commission only needed to ask the US Postal Department to conduct "payment research" on the money order. There is no cost for this service, but the results may have been a bit difficult for the WC to explain.

The Postal Money Order allegedly was purchased at the Dallas Post Office on March 12, 1963 at 10:30 A.M. According to Warren Commission documents, this money order was deposited into Klein's bank account in Chicago on February 15, 1963.  The Warren  Commission expected us to believe that the money order was deposited in the  First National  Bank of Chicago on  February 15,  1963--a month BEFORE the money order was purchased in Dallas! The money order and bank deposit printed in the Warren volumes in 1964 are both good examples of how the WC manipulated "evidence" in an attempt to frame Oswald as the Lone Assassin.  Oswald never purchased this money order nor was this money order ever deposited in Klein's bank account.  If Oswald never purchased nor received a rifle from Klein's, then he could not have posed for the Life magazine photo and he could not have carried the rifle to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository."

https://harveyandlee.net/

https://harveyandlee.net/MoneyOrder.html

Good enough for me.

[Duncan MacRae]

Interesting that the original thread about evidence and explaining the presence of the mannlicher carcano descended into off topic twaddle about the current deep state civil war. Hopefully this is not typical. If it is, it is highly suspicious given that many of the same families who participated in the JFK murder plot still hold power today.

[Martin Weidmann]

"Oswald Never Purchased a Mail Order Rifle
The Postal Money Order allegedly used to purchase the rifle that supposedly killed JFK is perhaps the most unexplainable document published by the Warren Commission. A quick look at this money order (see DOCUMENT link below) shows that it was never deposited nor cashed at a bank. It does not have a single bank stamp on the front or reverse side. Yet the WC wants us to believe that this uncashed, never-deposited money order was used to purchase the rifle that supposedly killed President Kennedy. All monetary instruments deposited to banks or financial institutions (1962-63) were stamped by the bank into which the item was deposited, stamped by a correspondent bank, and stamped by the originating bank or institution when the item was returned. A US Postal Money Order (PMO) purchased in Dallas, TX, and sent to Kleins Sporting Goods in Chicago, would have been date-stamped when deposited to their bank (First National Bank of Chicago). The PMO would have been stamped a second time after passing through a correspondent bank and/or the Federal Reserve System. Finally the PMO would have been stamped a third time when returned to Federal Postal Money Order Center (FPMOC) in Kansas City. But the money order given to the Warren Commission did not have a single bank endorsement stamp and was not found at the FPMOC in Kansas City. The absence of date-stamped bank endorsements means this PMO was never deposited to a bank nor cashed by Kleins Sporting Goods. Yet we are supposed to believe that Klein's Sporting Goods shipped a rifle to Oswald in Dallas, TX and that he used this rifle to kill JFK.

This never deposited money order first appeared in the hands of Robert Jackson, an employee of the Federal Records Center, who lived in Alexandria, VA. Neither Mr. Jackson nor any employee of the Federal Records Center was questioned about the money order by the FBI or Warren Commission or HSCA or the Secret Service. At 9:35 PM (11/23/63) Jackson hand delivered this money order to J. Harold Marks, a Finance Officer for the US Postal Service, at his home in Arlington, VA. The initials that appear on the back of this money order were made by Jackson, Marks, and other Federal officials who took possession of the money order. The Secret Service made 5 photostats of this money order and sent the photostats to Dallas. The following day (11/24/63), at 10:00 AM, Secret Service Agent Grimes gave the original PMO to the FBI, and the money order soon vanished. The Warren Commission accepted photostats of this money order as "proof" that Oswald purchased this mail-order rifle from Klein's Sporting Goods in Chicago. Apparently, not a single member of the WC nor its attorneys nor staff questioned the authenticity of this money order nor questioned the absence of a single bank stamp/endorsement.  To verify the authenticity and bank routing of this PMO, the Warren Commission only needed to ask the US Postal Department to conduct "payment research" on the money order. There is no cost for this service, but the results may have been a bit difficult for the WC to explain.

The Postal Money Order allegedly was purchased at the Dallas Post Office on March 12, 1963 at 10:30 A.M. According to Warren Commission documents, this money order was deposited into Klein's bank account in Chicago on February 15, 1963.  The Warren  Commission expected us to believe that the money order was deposited in the  First National  Bank of Chicago on  February 15,  1963--a month BEFORE the money order was purchased in Dallas! The money order and bank deposit printed in the Warren volumes in 1964 are both good examples of how the WC manipulated "evidence" in an attempt to frame Oswald as the Lone Assassin.  Oswald never purchased this money order nor was this money order ever deposited in Klein's bank account.  If Oswald never purchased nor received a rifle from Klein's, then he could not have posed for the Life magazine photo and he could not have carried the rifle to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository."

https://harveyandlee.net/

https://harveyandlee.net/MoneyOrder.html

Good enough for me.

Not good enough for me. I have my doubts about the veracity of the rifle transaction, but John Armstrong's opinion about the money order isn't the evidence I asked for.

If Oswald never purchased nor received a rifle from Klein's, then he could not have posed for the Life magazine photo and he could not have carried the rifle to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository."

This is BS. You don't have to purchase a rifle to be photographed with one. Also, to bring a rifle into the TSBD, you don't have to own it. Having it in your possession is enough.

Having said that, for a number of reasons, I personally seriously doubt that, in November 1963, Oswald had possession of the rifle that was found at the TSBD, but Armstrong's conclusion that Oswald couldn't have brought the rifle into the TSBD simply because he did not purchase is just plain silly.

[Richard Smith]

Not good enough for me. I have my doubts about the veracity of the rifle transaction, but John Armstrong's opinion about the money order isn't the evidence I asked for.

If Oswald never purchased nor received a rifle from Klein's, then he could not have posed for the Life magazine photo and he could not have carried the rifle to the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository."

This is BS. You don't have to purchase a rifle to be photographed with one. Also, to bring a rifle into the TSBD, you don't have to own it. Having it in your possession is enough.

Having said that, for a number of reasons, I personally seriously doubt that, in November 1963, Oswald had possession of the rifle that was found at the TSBD, but Armstrong's conclusion that Oswald couldn't have brought the rifle into the TSBD simply because he did not purchase is just plain silly.

In which Martin invokes his inner Inspector Clouseau once again.  He suspects everyone, and he suspects no one.  There are only "assumptions" and "opinions" in the contrarian wasteland that go round and round to no purpose.   Even after concluding that Oswald "didn't come down the stairs," we are forever left to ponder as to whether this is meant to suggest that Oswald wasn't the assassin.  No answer is ever forthcoming.  It's down the rabbit hole again and again.  This is where Martin attempts to deflect by asking for "my" evidence as though I or anyone has discovered evidence like Sherlock Holmes not uncovered by the DPD and FBI, as documented by the WC, in the most extensive criminal investigation in history.  His standard appearing to be to satisfy his own subjective impossible standard of proof.