CT's, how did Oswald's rifle end up on the 6th floor?

[Walt Cakebread]

I would guess about 15', maybe more. The rifle was actually found to the West of that high stack that reaches to the "Stair Way" sign.

Boone's arrow is on the East side (towards the viewer) of the high stack. Maybe he didn't realize it. He certainly didnt point to a stack of cartons on a pallet, which are visible in the photo.



In this view, looking South, the tall stack mentioned previously is to camera-left. The window on the West wall is to camera-right. Sunlight from it falls on the tall stack. The rifle was found on the floor on the opposite side of the six boxes in the foreground that are stacked two-high.

Jerry, do you see any pallet beneath the boxes that formed the north wall of the crevasse ?



Surely you've come to your senses and realize that  Seymour  Weitzman very clearly stated that the rifle was beneath the pallet.....

[Walt Cakebread]

    "I was on the floor looking under the flat at the same time he [Boone] was looking
     on the top side and we saw the gun, I would say, simultaneously and I said,
     "There it is" and he started hollering, "We got it."
        -- Weitzman

Interesting. If the rifle is beneath the pallet, how can Boone (on top of the pallet) see through the stacked books to the floor?

    "Well, I would be looking over--Boone was looking the top side; I was looking under
     the flat. We were looking over everything. I was behind this section of books.
     I believe there were more books in here."
        -- Weitzman

Hmm. "I was behind this section of books"? He's probably crouched down near the floor ("I was looking under the flat") when he saw the rifle trough the gap between the stacked cartons ("I was behind this section of books").

    "at the time we found the gun there were no boxes protruding over the gun"
        -- Weitzman

Doesn't sound like there's a pallet and a huge stack of cartons over the rifle.

CE 515 (marked by Boone)

Mr. BALL - Now, 515 contains the arrow which shows the space between boxes
          where you found the rifle, is that right?
Mr. BOONE - Yes.

Boone's arrow point to the line of boxes where the rifle appears in the Crime Lab pictures.



    "I left Fritz in charge while Deputy Boone and I began looking for the weapon.
        ...
     Boone was about six to eight feet from me when he said, "I see it!"

     I stepped over and looked between the cartons and said, "Sure, that's the weapon!"

        -- Luke Mooney, in "No More Silence" (Snead, 1998)

"Looked between the cartons".

Mr. BELIN - How far were you from Officer Boone when he hollered?
Mr. CRAIG - About 8-foot.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do then?
Mr. CRAIG - I went over to the--uh--luster of boxes where he was standing and
          looked down between the boxes and saw the rifle lying on the floor.
Mr. BELIN - When you say "between the cluster of boxes," could you describe
          which way the boxes were?
Mr. CRAIG - There was a row going east to west on the north side of the weapon,
          and a box going east to west on the south side of the weapon, and--uh--if I
          remember, uh--as you'd look down, you had to look kinda back under the
          north stack of boxes to see the rifle. It was pushed kinda under---uh---or up
          tight against 'em---you know, where it would be hard to see. And, of course,
           both ends of the rows were closed off where you couldn't see through 'em.
          You had to get up and look in 'em.
Mr. BELIN - You are gesturing with your hand there---would you say that the boxes,
           then, as you gestured, were in the shape of what I would call a rectangular
          "O", so to speak?
Mr. CRAIG - Yes, yes, uh-huh.
Mr. BELIN - And about how high were the walls of this enclosure, so to speak?
Mr. CRAIG - Well, it-it was different heights. Now, the part where I looked in
          particularly was about---uh---oh, was about 5-foot.

"Looked down between the boxes and saw the rifle lying on the floor". Sounds like they're standing South of the pallets of stacked cartons and looking northward through that gap:



Gap between stacked cartons on pallets is upper center in background.

Doesn't sound like there's a pallet and a huge stack of cartons over the rifle.

CE 515 (marked by Boone)

Who said anything about a huge stack of cartons over the rifle.....There were no cartons over the the rifle except the one or two boxes that served as to roof of the crevasse.  Just LOOK at the photo .....Can't you see that it would be a simple matter to slide the north boxes to the south and form a "cave" beneath the pallet.
And I know you've seen the Alyea film that shows Lt Day, Who is on the south side of the rifle,  kneeling down, and reaching out to grab the leather sling ( which is mounted on the left side of the rifle, and is up, toward the ceiling, when Day grabs it. ) he then lifts the rifle by the sling.   The rifle was lying on the floor with the bolt handle down and the sling side up.

[Walt Cakebread]

I have nothing more. Multiple Forum members have lent support for the DPD Crime Lab in-situ location. No one on the Forum, after pages and years of consideration of what you've presented, supports your alternative location.

That said, evidence validity isn't something determined by popularity.

This is a fake in situ photo ( above)  that the DPD created to support their lie about Lee dashing by the boxes and tossing the rifle aside as he fled.



And this is what the scene looked like at the time ( about 1:45 ) the rifle was removed from beneath the wooden pallet.

Compare the boxes that have the blue arrows pointing to them with the boxes to the left side of the rifle in the fake in situ photo....They should appear to be the same boxes in the same positions in both photos.  ( If they are genuine) One glaring difference....Notice that the box above the butt of the rifle is open in the fake photo, That box was NOT open, and is sealed with tape, in the photo with the blue arrows.....One of the photos is a fake....  Another glaring difference... Notice that the photo with the blue arrows was obviously taken with strong sunlight shining on the boxes and floor.....whereas the official in situ photo appears to have been taken at night.

[Walt Cakebread]

You said the rifle was under the pallet. The pallets in that area are stacked five-feet high with cartons.

Unfortunately, the Alyea clip begins at the moment of pick-up; it can't say anything about how the rifle was originally positioned in the crack. Day acknowledged the in-situ photos and therefore he must have prepared the rifle for pickup. If he had not manipulated the rifle in order to safety pick it it up and instead just picked the rifle up by the sight, you would have faulted him for that.

Yes, the  Alyea clip does begin at the moment that the kneeling Lt Day grabs the sling of the rifle which is lying on the floor. Watch at the 2:52 point to see him grab the sling. 

[Walt Cakebread]

Yawn!

Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO box.
Oswald was photographed with C2766.
Oswald's rifle was missing from the blanket in the Paine garage.
C2766 was found on the 6th floor of Oswald's workplace.
C2766 contained fresh fibers which matched Oswald's shirt fibers.
C2766 had Oswald's palm print.

Btw I will end this here, if you want to discuss the rifle ownership then create your own thread.

JohnM

Kleins sent C2766 to Oswald's PO box.....This is probably true.

Oswald was photographed with C2766.....This is NOT true.   Lee was photographed with a Mannlicher carcano....There is no way to know the serial number...However the rifle in Lee's hand's seems to be a bit different than the TSBD rifle.... The front sling swivel is on the bottom of the rifle in the BY photo   

Oswald's rifle was missing from the blanket in the Paine garage....  True ...there was no rifle in the blanket....But can you prove that the carcano was ever in that blanket?

C2766 was found on the 6th floor of Oswald's workplace.  True, a carcano with the serial # C 2766 was found well hidden beneath a pallet with boxes of books stacked on it. on the sixth floor.   But it is very easy to replace the barrel and stamp the new barrel with any number you desire. 

C2766 contained fresh fibers which matched Oswald's shirt fibers....   A ha!!....   The FBI claimed the fibers matched the shirt that Lee was wearing at the time of his arrest at the theater. ( and I don't doubt that this is true)....However that arrest shirt is NOT the shirt that Lee was wearing at the TSBD at the time of the shooting.

C2766 had Oswald's palm print..... This definitely a lie.  But I'm not going to go into the reason I know for a fact that it is a lie.   Because laying out the evidence is futile because it is  apparently too difficult for most folks to comprehend.

[Zeon Mason]

If Weizmann was on the south side of stacked up boxes on the pallet and trying to look north underneath of them then he only had a 1/4 inch gap to see thru due to the 2x4s that run east/west

Then in addition to that is the wall of boxes that form the south side wall that completely hide the rifle and were stacked originally side by side with probably no more than a 1/8th inch gap along the east west direction

Therefore,IMO, Weitzman is “embellishing” this supposed sighting of the rifle UNLESS the rifle originally really was basically resting in the 4” gap available between upper and lower 1x4s and the rifle being parallel with the 2x4s structural frame

Since for some reason no photograph was taken of the ORIGINAL configuration of the 2 parallel rows of boxes BEFORE moving some of them out of the way to photo part of the rifle

Then all that can be proposed is that the gap was probably the same as what gap can be seen in the rest of the unmoved portion of walls

Which gap appears (as Walt already pointed out )is NOT 4” wide which is about what would be needed for width of the wooden stock plus off set scope plus bolt handle

IF that gap was only about 1” as it appears in the other section of unmoved boxes forming the 2 walls Then there should have been some scoring/dents etc on inner vertical sides of the boxes due to force of friction reaction to rifle stock and protruding elements of offset scope and the bolt handle

[Walt Cakebread]

If Weizmann was on the south side of stacked up boxes on the pallet and trying to look north underneath of them then he only had a 1/4 inch gap to see thru due to the 2x4s that run east/west

Then in addition to that is the wall of boxes that form the south side wall that completely hide the rifle and were stacked originally side by side with probably no more than a 1/8th inch gap along the east west direction

Therefore,IMO, Weitzman is “embellishing” this supposed sighting of the rifle UNLESS the rifle originally really was basically resting in the 4” gap available between upper and lower 1x4s and the rifle being parallel with the 2x4s structural frame

Since for some reason no photograph was taken of the ORIGINAL configuration of the 2 parallel rows of boxes BEFORE moving some of them out of the way to photo part of the rifle

Then all that can be proposed is that the gap was probably the same as what gap can be seen in the rest of the unmoved portion of walls

Which gap appears (as Walt already pointed out )is NOT 4” wide which is about what would be needed for width of the wooden stock plus off set scope plus bolt handle

IF that gap was only about 1” as it appears in the other section of unmoved boxes forming the 2 walls Then there should have been some scoring/dents etc on inner vertical sides of the boxes due to force of friction reaction to rifle stock and protruding elements of offset scope and the bolt handle

"If Weizmann was on the south side of stacked up boxes on the pallet and trying to look north underneath of them"

Zeon.... I've been posting information for you for several days, and you haven't even learned that Seymour Weitzman was moving from EAST to West as he approached the rifle that was lying on it's right side beneath the northern edge of the wooden pallet.  He was NOT  trying to look north underneath the pallet.

Perhaps you should review the thread.....  This isn't difficult.... Although the photos do tend to confuse those who aren't familiar with the area at the top of the stairs.

If anybody in the forum is confused or doesn't understand the crux of this information, please ask questions.   

[Walt Cakebread]

Weitzman did move from the east side of the building to the west side to search, but he has never described walking westward between the pallets and the northmost row of boxes.



You said the rifle was under the pallet; now it's beneath the northern edge. It keeps creeping northward. The "northern edge" of the pallet in question (lower-right in photo above) is solid wood.



   Mr. BALL - I have three pictures here which I have marked, respectively, D, E, F. I show
           you D first. Does that look anything like the location where you found the gun?
   Mr. WEITZMAN - Yes, sir; this is taken the opposite side the flat I was looking under.

The only confusion is from your interpretations.

Weitzman did move from the east side of the building to the west side to search, but he has never described walking westward between the pallets and the northmost row of boxes.

I don't know what the hell you're babbling about now..... Weitzman did walk eastward between the rows of boxes he then got down on the floor and shined his flashlight beneath the pallet, and he saw the rifle that was pointed at him lying on the floor.

You said the rifle was under the pallet; now it's beneath the northern edge. It keeps creeping northward. The "northern edge" of the pallet in question (lower-right in photo above) is solid wood.

Jerry, Because you seem to be to dishonest to admit the truth even to yourself,  Why don't you mark  the 15' 4" mark on the floor in the photo with the two blue arrows.