Motive

[Thomas Graves]

Hi Thomas, thanks for the feedback. As for Frazier;

1. Frazier tells us during his testimony that he wasn't "paying much attention to the bag"
2. Oswald tells Frazier he's carrying curtain rods
3. Oswald tells his interrogators that he has his lunch in the bag.
4. Frazier says the bag was on the back seat.
5. Oswald says he carried the bag on his lap.
6. The bag matches the size of the broken down rifle.
7. The bag has Oswald's prints.
8. The bag was found in the sniper's nest.



JohnM

John,

Yes, but it seems to me that his "not paying much attention" to the package is contradicted by his describing it more recently as being "24 to 25 inches in length" (iirc)

Why not say it was "24-to-30 inches in length", or something, instead?

Why the only one inch increment?

Smacks of a close observation on his part, imho.

Just saying ...

-- MWT 

PS  I wonder if anyone has determined how many inches there are from a typical 5' 9.5" American man's armpit to the cup of his hand?

Point being: If the package was only 25 inches long, would it have been long enough to fit well from Oswald's armpit to his hand?

[Colin Crow]

I reckon Oswald's motive can be reasonably established by examining two people in 1963 that Oswald pointed his rifle at(Walker and Kennedy) and what was their connection?

During February 1963, Walker joined Billy Hargis in an anti-communist tour named "Operation Midnight Ride".[24] In a speech Walker made on March 5, reported in the Dallas Times Herald, he called on the United States military to "liquidate the [communist] scourge that has descended upon the island of Cuba."[25] Seven days later, Lee Harvey Oswald ordered by mail a Carcano rifle, using the alias "A. Hidell."[26]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edwin_Walker

And 3 days after the following article was printed in the Dallas Times Herald, Kennedy was assassinated.



Oswald has a proven history of supporting Cuba.



Oswald's possessions.



Mr. DULLES. Have you any views of your own as to motive from your talks with him? Did you get any clues as to possible motive in assassinating the President?
Mr. FRITZ. I can only tell you what little I know now. I am sure that we have people in Washington here that can tell far more than I can.
Mr. DULLES. Well, you saw the man and the others didn't see the man.
Mr. FRITZ. I got the impression, I got the impression that he was doing it because of his feeling about the Castro revolution, and I think that he felt, he had a lot of feeling about that revolution. I think that was the reason. I noticed another thing. I noticed a little before when Walker was shot, he had come out with some statements about Castro and about Cuba and a lot of things and if you will remember the President had some stories a few weeks before his death about Cuba and about Castro and some things, and I wondered if that didn't have some bearing. I have no way of knowing that other than just watching him and talking to him. I think it was his feeling about his belief in being a Marxist, I think he had--he told me he had debated in New Orleans, and that he tried to get converts to this Fair Play for Cuba organization, so I think that was his motive. I think he was doing it because of that.

JohnM

Don’t see a WC exhibit number for this one. Is it a fake?

[Thomas Graves]

Don’t see a WC exhibit number for this one. Is it a fake?

Gosh, it must be, huh?

(sarcasm)

-- MWT 

[John Mytton]

John,

Yes, but it seems to me that his "not paying much attention" to the package is contradicted by his describing it more recently as being "24 to 25 inches in length" (iirc)

Why not say it was "24-to-30 inches in length", or something, instead?

Why the only one inch increment?

Smacks of a close observation on his part, imho.

Just saying ...

-- MWT 

PS  I wonder if anyone has determined how many inches there are from a typical 5' 9.5" American man's armpit to the cup of his hand?

Point being: If the package was only 25 inches long, would it have been long enough to fit well from Oswald's armpit to his hand?

Smacks of a close observation on his part, imho.

While Frazier was in the Service, he broke down his 44.3 inch M14 rifle many times and you can't get a closer hands on observation than that, also remember that Frazier never handled Oswald's package

Q: What kind of rifle did you use in the Service?
A: An M14.
Q: Approximately how long was the M14 that you used?
A: I believe the correct length is 30 some odd inches long?
Q: 30 something inches long?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ever break that rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, I broke it down many times.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazierb3.htm



Btw the package had Oswald's prints and Oswald and Frazier had different recollections about the contents and placement of the package, who had the greater incentive to lie?

JohnM

[Colin Crow]

Btw the package had Oswald's prints and Oswald and Frazier had different recollections about the contents and placement of the package, who had the greater incentive to lie?

JohnM

The evening of the assassination, Oswald in custody accused of shooting Tippit. Also suspected of involvement in JFK assassination.

At that point Frazier, was known to be involved in getting Oswald a job at TSBD, drove him to work that morning, was his closest associate at TSBD, somehow left the scene after all employees who had been on 6th floor that morning were to be taken downtown for questioning. Was not located for many hours after the shooting. After being taken into custody, had his rifle confiscated and was called back to be given a polygraph after being told by Fritz to confess.

[Thomas Graves]

While Frazier was in the Service, he broke down his 44.3 inch M14 rifle many times and you can't get a closer hands on observation than that, also remember that Frazier never handled Oswald's package

Q: What kind of rifle did you use in the Service?
A: An M14.
Q: Approximately how long was the M14 that you used?
A: I believe the correct length is 30 some odd inches long?
Q: 30 something inches long?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you ever break that rifle down?
A: Yes, sir, I broke it down many times.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/frazierb3.htm



Btw the package had Oswald's prints and Oswald and Frazier had different recollections about the contents and placement of the package, who had the greater incentive to lie?

JohnM

Point being?

Once again ... Why such a close observation-like, detailed (measley one-inch increment) statement my Frazier?

 "24-to-25 inches in length"

-- MWT 

[John Mytton]

The evening of the assassination, Oswald in custody accused of shooting Tippit. Also suspected of involvement in JFK assassination.

At that point Frazier, was known to be involved in getting Oswald a job at TSBD, drove him to work that morning, was his closest associate at TSBD, somehow left the scene after all employees who had been on 6th floor that morning were to be taken downtown for questioning. Was not located for many hours after the shooting. After being taken into custody, had his rifle confiscated and was called back to be given a polygraph after being told by Fritz to confess.

Sure, Frazier was spombleprofglidnoctobunsting bricks at that stage and under the same circumstances, I would be too!
But the fact of the matter is, Frazier had no idea who else saw Oswald carry the long package into the depository, so obviously Frazier had to say that Oswald was carrying something long, even if imo Frazier slightly underestimated the length, a guess is just a guess after all.
Who wants to be known as the guy who could have prevented a Presidential assassination because he didn't report an obviously suspicious package of about 35 inches?

JohnM

[John Mytton]

Point being?

Once again ... Why such a close observation-like, detailed (measley one-inch increment) statement my Frazier?

 "24-to-25 inches in length"

-- MWT 

Point being?

Frazier's Service rifle was 44.3 inches and Frazier recalls the length as 30 some odd inches long.
How come Frazier doesn't pinpoint the very familiar M14 with a measly one-inch increment, not only does Frazier give a vaguely approximate answer, his answer appears to be about a foot off.

At the London TV Trial, Frazier while under oath admits that the rifle could have been sticking out in front.

In the following graphic by Jerry Organ, Frazier may have seen the following and just assumed that Oswald carried the rifle from his cuoped hand to his armpit. Btw I'm 6'2" and the measurement of my cupped hand to my armpit is about 22 inches.



JohnM