Debunking process

[Michael Clark]

Jeff,....

Blah blah blah...

an Oswald impersonator (who, as Peter Dale Scott points out, spoke Russian poorly -- i.e., on purpose? -- AND English poorly -- i.e., naturally?) ...
1956?

Peter Dale Scott did not say that the Mexico City LHO (who spoke on the recordings that the CIA erased) spoke Russian poorly, on purpose. You just made that up and slipped it in there as if nobody would notice your deception.

What's with the attitude, btw?

-- MWT 

It’s probably the lies.... jus’ sayin.

Newman even convinced Peter Dale Scott of this last year in San Francisco.

Of what?

[Michael Clark]

Nosenko was a false defector sent here to get CIA and FBI to disbelieve a previous (true) defector -- Anatoliy Golitsyn.

 Nosenko  was a KGB agent who defected to the United States in Switzerland in early 1960. His interrogation was headed under supervision of the Soviet Russia division of the Directorate of Operations, especially by David Murphy an Peter Bagley of the SR division.
Mr. Osborne states that he repeatedly protested the treatment of Nosenko. After  more than two years of solitary confinement in a special facility for which the Office of Security provided all security measures, Mr. Bruce Solie of the Security Office finally arranged for the release of Nosenko and gradually increased his privileges and freedom.

Mr. Osborne states that Nosenko has proved to be the most valuable defector in the entire history of the CIA. He has been responsible for identifying nine Soviet agents including a Major in the Pentagon.

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a95b5aff-c8a2-48ae-8436-008ec880290f/downloads/F170D42F-0075-4E23-BF34-9B64AD1AA987.jpeg?ver=1562015721579

[Thomas Graves]

https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/a95b5aff-c8a2-48ae-8436-008ec880290f/downloads/F170D42F-0075-4E23-BF34-9B64AD1AA987.jpeg?ver=1562015721579

Michael,

If you had read Spy Wars, you'd realize that all of the "leads" Nosenko gave CIA and FBI were to KGB agents who were either: 1) already under suspicion, 2) not active with KGB when Nosenko "uncovered" them, and/or 3) had already lost their access to classified materials.

In other words, they were all "burnable" by the KGB, in its (unfortunately successful-from-1964-to-2007) attempt to build Nosenko up in the eyes of gullibles at the CIA and FBI, like your boy Osborn, Bruce "Sucker" Solie, John L. Hart, Leonard McCoy, Cleveland Cram, Rufus Taylor, et al., and the worst of all -- J. Edgar Hoover, who unwittingly gave a KGB triple-agent (Aleksei Kulak) "protection" from the evil, evil, evil CIA, and even sent his reports directly to president Nixon.

I dare you to name just one who falls beyond these parameters.

LOL

-- MWT   

PS  Here's a WaPo article from 1981 about Kulak (aka "Fedora").

Enjoy!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/1981/09/03/fbi-says-its-spy-in-kgb-was-a-fake/2f5602ba-7108-473e-9d91-dbdb92746da2/?utm_term=.a7fcf5e0b190

[Michael Clark]

Michael,

If you had read Spy Wars, you'd realize that all of the "leads" Nosenko gave CIA and FBI were to KGB agents who were either: 1) already under suspicion, 2) not active with KGB when Nosenko "uncovered" them, and/or 3) had already lost their access to classified materials.

In other words, they were all "burnable" by the KGB, in its (unfortunately successful-from-1964-to-2007) attempt to build Nosenko up in the eyes of gullibles at the CIA and FBI, like your boy Osborn, Bruce "Sucker" Solie, John L. Hart, Leonard McCoy, Cleveland Cram, Rufus Taylor, et al., and the worst of all -- J. Edgar Hoover, who gave a KGB triple-agent (Aleksei Kulak) "protection" from the evil, evil, evil CIA and even sent his reports directly to presidents LBJ and RMN.

I dare you to name just one who falls beyond these parameters.

LOL

-- MWT   

Thomas,

You cite nothing, and even if you did, it would be from one who was writing an apologia for his own failings, and who was in charge of torturing a later-exonerated victim. That is how the record reads. I can’t do anything about that. You claim that all of your CIA superhero’s were suckers except for one: the author of (apparently) the only book you have read in the last three years.

[Thomas Graves]

Thomas,

You cite nothing, and even if you did, it would be from one who was writing an apologia for his own failings, and who was in charge of torturing a later-exonerated victim. That is how the record reads. I can’t do anything about that. You claim that all of your CIA superhero’s were suckers except for one: the author of (apparently) the only book you have read in the last three years.

Thomas, you cite nothing, and even if you did, it would be from one [Tennent H. Bagley] who was writing an apologia for his own failings, and who was in charge of torturing a later-exonerated victim. That is how the record reads. I can’t do anything about that. You claim that all of your CIA superhero’s were suckers except for one: the author of (apparently) the only book you have read in the last three years.

Michael,

Are you afraid to read Bagley's Spy Wars,and/or Spymaster, and/or Ghosts of the Spy Wars, and Mark Riebling's Wedge: The Secret War Between the FBI and CIA, and Pyotr Deriabin's book about Oleg Penkovsky, The Spy Who Saved The World, and Golitsyn's New Lies For Old and/or The Perestroika Deception, etc, etc, etc, and/or oodles and gobs of other books and Internet articles (e.g., by Emma Best at Muckrock), etc, etc, etc?

Are you afraid to watch Newman's two-part youtube presentation "Spy Wars" (yep, based on  the book by the same name by ... gasp ... Tennent H. Bagley) from March 3, 2018, again (if you ever did, that is), especially the part near the end of Part 2 where PDS confesses that Newman has just convinced him that ... gasp ... Nosenko was a false defector?

If so, Why?

And what do you mean by "cite" in the context of this forum and the basic subject matter I'm talking about -- the fact that the "KGB" has been running circles around our intelligence agencies since day one?

Which KGB or GRU "illegal," triple-agent or false defector would you like to have more information about, Michael?

George de Mohrenschildt?

Aleksei Kulak?

Dimitri Polyakov (who, after he left the U.S. and really did start working with the CIA, was then uncovered in Moscow a few years after he'd retired, arrested, "tried," and executed)?

Yuri Loginov?

Edward Ellis Smith?


Regardless, the ball's in your court.

My standing challenge to you:

Name one KGB (or GRU) agent who was "uncovered" by your hero, Nosenko, who wasn't already under suspicion by FBI or CIA, or who was still actively working for the KGB (or GRU), and/or still had access to classified materials.

LOL

-- MWT 

Edited a teensy-weensy bit and bumped for MICHAEL CLARK, or anyone else who'd like to take a shot at it.  The standing challenge, that is.

-- MWT 

[Michael Clark]

Michael,

........

LOL

-- MWT 

Thomas

Why do you ambrace the motto: “ I don’t answer questions, I only ask them”?

Why do you think that anyone should ever engage you with those standings rules?

[Tom Scully]

Michael, I took your comment about CIA fakery to possibly be a blanket statement, not specific to  any particular thing posted by Tommy.
Thank you for the clarification. I post on the assumption it is the obligation of the  presenter to posts specific cite in support...at the least,
if it is a book page cite, details...book title and page #, and more if available....a screen capture of the cited book page, highlighting the key supporting words.

I agree the price of admission to debate Tommy should not require reading an entire book.

The Empire Trust post I was refering to.:

Tom, thanks for the follow-up on this. It is an interesting element to the recent posts to the Veciana thread, and it is interesting on its own.

I am trying to be more civil...I have refrained comment on the HP Albarelli, Jr. thread here, despite his key influence on Simkin putting the
Ed Forum into a slow death spiral, in consideration of the inability of Mr. Albarelli to represent himself.

[Thomas Graves]

Peter Dale Scott did not say that the Mexico City LHO (who spoke on the recordings that the CIA erased) spoke Russian poorly, on purpose. You just made that up and slipped it in there as if nobody would notice your deception.

Michael,

I didn't mean to suggest that PDS said (or even suggested), in that two-part March 3, 2018 "Spy Wars" youtube video presentation by Dr. John M. Newman in San Francisco, that the Oswald over-the-phone impersonator had intentionally spoken bad Russian.

That's my theory.

In other words, it seems to me as though the over-the-phone impersonator of Oswald didn't realise he could speak Russian pretty darn well, and overplayed his "Oswald Must Have Been A Lousy Speaker Of Russian" hand (or voice) in that regard.

If you've watched Dr. John M. Newman's two-part March 3, 2018 "Spy Wars" presentation in San Francisco as you claim you have, then you probably remember PDS's emphasizing near the end of Part 2 that the over-the-phone impersonator spoke bad Russian AND BAD ENGLISH (emphasis his), as I would suspect a Russian impersonator -- like over-30, short, blond, very thin-faced KGB colonel Nikolai Leonov, for example -- would have done -- speak bad English, that is.

Sorry for the confusion.

-- MWT 

PS  I've never tried to deceive anybody at this forum, or at the EF (from which, btw, you successfully contrived to get me banned on May 20 of last year).

No need for you to go back and completely remove your May 21 "limited hangout" (but still self-incriminating) reasons for deleting your day-before (baiting) remarks on that EF thread, seein' as how I have screenshots of them.

I don't know how to post them here, however. 

Maybe I can learn how to do that...