When was CE142 discovered in the 6th floor SN?

[Colin Crow]

I know that is  what they want us to believe but "he said came up and took pictures and all that" before they picked the bag up.

"And all that" includes dusting of the shells as well as the photos of the shells.

[Ray Mitcham]

"And all that" includes dusting of the shells as well as the photos of the shells.

Agreed but they took pictures before they did that, according to Johnson. I wonder what happened to these "pictures".

[Colin Crow]

Agreed but they took pictures before they did that, according to Johnson. I wonder what happened to these "pictures".

Upon arrival, Studebaker took these two shots....Studebaker Exhibit A and B





After these were taken Day dusted the shells with the assistance of Sims, who had left the SN to continue the search. After the rifle was discovered Fritz sent Sims to gather Day and Studebaker to that location. When Fritz left the SN with Sims and Boyd he assigned Montgomery and Johnson to guard the area.

Mr. MONTGOMERY. Well, first I reported to Captain Fritz, my partner and I and he assigned us to this position over there where the boxes were.
Mr. BALL. Where was that?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. It would be what--the southeast corner of the building--over there from where the shooting took place.
Mr. BALL. Well, was that before the cartridges had been found or afterwards?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No, sir; they had been found when we got there.
Mr. BALL. When you got there they had been found already?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What about the rifle, had it been found?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. No, Sir; it hadn't.
Mr. BALL. The rifle was found after you got there?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.

Mr. JOHNSON. When we first arrived, we asked--we walked into the building and there was a uniform officer on duty there at the door, and we asked him if Captain Fritz was there, and he said yes.
And we asked him where, and he said he went on up to the sixth floor.
So at that time we were interested really in contacting Captain Fritz for any particular assignment he might want to give us, so we went on up to the sixth floor, and he was there, and that is when he assigned L. D. Montgomery, my partner and myself to the scene where the shooting occurred.
Mr. BELIN. When he assigned it to you, did he say anything that this was the scene where the shooting occurred, or did he just assign an area at that time which you later found out to be the scene from which the shooting occurred?
Mr. JOHNSON. We had already been there a few minutes when he told us to stay there and preserve the scene. Actually at the time he told us that, we knew that that was where the shooting had occurred, because that is, the hulls were on the floor. We knew all that already.
Mr. BELIN. In other words, when you got there, or when you talked to Captain Fritz, the hulls, the three hulls had already been found in a particular portion of the sixth floor, is that correct?

Mr. BALL. We will Identify your Exhibit A as your No. 20 and your Exhibit B as your No. 19. Now, what other pictures did you take?
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Of the rifle?
Mr. BALL. Yes.
Mr. STUDEBAKER. Yes, sir; that's why, right after these were taken, they said they had found a rifle and to bring the cameras over to the northwest corner of the building where the rifle was found and I loaded everything up and carried it over there.

[Charles Collins]

What he said can be found here.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/montgom1.htm

Happy to discuss.

When it was discovered would be when someone first noticed it. It could have been laying there for a while before someone picked it up. Studebaker had less than two months experience in his position in the crime lab. He and Day only brought one camera to the TSBD. The processing of the SE corner area was interrupted by the discovery of the rifle in the opposite corner of the building. Later, Day sent Studebaker back to the SE corner and told him to continue processing the items while Day finished with the rifle and then took it to the lab and locked it up for further processing later.

It seems to me that Studebaker’s lack of experience and training in his new position could have been a factor in why the bag was not photographed before someone picked it up. Should we believe Johnson’s claim or should we believe Montgomery’s version? I believe that  Studebaker was supposed to be in charge of processing the items in that area at that time. No one should have touched anything without his permission.

[Colin Crow]

When it was discovered would be when someone first noticed it. It could have been laying there for a while before someone picked it up. Studebaker had less than two months experience in his position in the crime lab. He and Day only brought one camera to the TSBD. The processing of the SE corner area was interrupted by the discovery of the rifle in the opposite corner of the building. Later, Day sent Studebaker back to the SE corner and told him to continue processing the items while Day finished with the rifle and then took it to the lab and locked it up for further processing later.

It seems to me that Studebaker’s lack of experience and training in his new position could have been a factor in why the bag was not photographed before someone picked it up. Should we believe Johnson’s claim or should we believe Montgomery’s version? I believe that  Studebaker was supposed to be in charge of processing the items in that area at that time. No one should have touched anything without his permission.

Can you produce anything from those officers who first saw the SN, prior to the discovery of the rifle, that mentions the gun wrapper in that location?

Montgomery gives us this.....

Mr. BALL. That's Exhibit J.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Right over here is where we found that long piece of paper that looked like a sack, that the rifle had been in.
Mr. BALL. Does that have a number--that area--where you found that long piece of paper?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. It's No. 2 right here.
Mr. BALL. You found the sack in the area marked 2 on Exhibit J to the Studebaker deposition. Did you pick the sack up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Which sack are we talking about now?
Mr. BALL. The paper sack?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. The small one or the larger one?
Mr. BALL. The larger one you mentioned that was in position 2.
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Yes.
Mr. BALL. You picked it up?
Mr. MONTGOMERY. Wait just a minute no; I didn't pick it up. I believe Mr. Studebaker did. We left it laying right there so they could check it for prints.

Nothing about the time from that senario that I can see. Agree about inexperience of Studebaker. However I would contend he had already photographed the shells, the rifle, the lunch sack and pop bottle as evidence. Do you think he forgot this process or did not consider the wrapper as evidence at that time?

[Charles Collins]

Can you produce anything from those officers who first saw the SN, prior to the discovery of the rifle, that mentions the gun wrapper in that location?

I don’t recall seeing anything. I suppose it is feasible (but unlikely) that no one noticed it for a while. And the photo taken of the hulls from the direction of the SE corner, when Day and Studebaker first arrived on scene, would have been taken from a position basically right above the bag. Maybe this particular question just wasn’t asked of the detectives during their testimony?

[Colin Crow]

I don’t recall seeing anything. I suppose it is feasible (but unlikely) that no one noticed it for a while. And the photo taken of the hulls from the direction of the SE corner, when Day and Studebaker first arrived on scene, would have been taken from a position basically right above the bag. Maybe this particular question just wasn’t asked of the detectives during their testimony?

You think?........Try Mooney, Fritz, Boyd, Hill, Craig for starters, there are more.

[Jack Nessan]

The bag was discovered before the rifle was discovered.

Taken from reporter Ken Biffle's notes  page 6 and 7:

"It didn't take the policemen long to find the cartridges by the ambush window. We all stood around staring at the brown wrapping paper found nearby. It was a reasonable conclusion that it held the rifle.
An officer in the northwest corner of the room yelled: "Over here!"
I ran over, dodging down narrow alleys in the stacks of packing crates. I was secure in the knowledge that my theory was materializing. They'd found the body of the gunman, I guessed"