When was CE142 discovered in the 6th floor SN?

[Colin Crow]

The bag was photographed being brought out the front of the Depository at 2:19 p.m. (Trask, Pictures of the Pain, p. 338)
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bag.htm

I believe that 3.00 pm is accepted by most. Also entered into evidence at 3.20 (memory).

[Gary Craig]

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10484#relPageId=94&tab=page
Commission Document 81.1 - AG Texas

[Colin Crow]

Looks like the wrapper was in position close to the wooden window strip. The strip was likely part of the protected crime scene evidence being transported to City Hall by Montgomery about 3pm.

[Patrick Jackson]

Trying to determine time frame of CE 508 and it seems it was taken much later than we think. Check the top box in the left corner. If we take this box as a reference together with the shadow lines (in RED), it is obvious that CE 142 was placed on the boxes later than the first pictures of the sniper nest were taken.


If the CE 142 was present on the boxes from the beginning it should be visible on CE 726 which is top left photo. Bottom left photo is a recreation of the sniper nest probably take after 3PM but I still have to check on the shadows timing.

[Colin Crow]

Trying to determine time frame of CE 508 and it seems it was taken much later than we think. Check the top box in the left corner. If we take this box as a reference together with the shadow lines (in RED), it is obvious that CE 142 was placed on the boxes later than the first pictures of the sniper nest were taken.


If the CE 142 was present on the boxes from the beginning it should be visible on CE 726 which is top left photo. Bottom left photo is a recreation of the sniper nest probably take after 3PM but I still have to check on the shadows timing.

Patrick, CE 508 was CE 503 with an arrow added during Mooney's testimony. There were only two photos of the SN taken before the rifle was removed about 2pm by Day, Studebaker exhibits A and B, showing the positions of the shells. CE 142 was photographed being removed by Montgomery at 3pm.

Please note the following exchange between Belin and Day regarding the fingerprint equipment captured in CE 723. CE 503, 508 and 723 all look to be the same photo. I don’t believe Day was present when it was taken.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I am going to hand you what I will mark as "723" and ask you to state if you know what this is.
Mr. DAY. 726----
Mr. BELIN. No; 723.
Mr. DAY. 723 is the southeast corner of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN. Who took that picture, if you know?
Mr. DAY. Detective Studebaker.
Mr. BELIN. Was it taken under your direction and supervision, Mr. Day?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I was present. The two metal boxes you will note to the left, are our fingerprint equipment that inadvertently got into the picture with a wide-angle lens camera.
Mr. BELIN. When you say to the left----
Mr. DAY. To the right.
Mr. BELIN. You mean as you face the picture to the right.
Mr. DAY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to circle on Exhibit 723 your fingerprint equipment?
Mr. DAY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I will ask you to state if you know if this picture was taken before any of the boxes shown on 723 were moved.
Mr. DAY. To the best of my knowledge they had not been moved.

[Patrick Jackson]

Patrick, CE 508 was CE 503 with an arrow added during Mooney's testimony. There were only two photos of the SN taken before the rifle was removed about 2pm by Day, Studebaker exhibits A and B, showing the positions of the shells. CE 142 was photographed being removed by Montgomery at 3pm.

Please note the following exchange between Belin and Day regarding the fingerprint equipment captured in CE 723. CE 503, 508 and 723 all look to be the same photo. I don’t believe Day was present when it was taken.

Mr. BELIN. Now, I am going to hand you what I will mark as "723" and ask you to state if you know what this is.
Mr. DAY. 726----
Mr. BELIN. No; 723.
Mr. DAY. 723 is the southeast corner of the sixth floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building.
Mr. BELIN. Who took that picture, if you know?
Mr. DAY. Detective Studebaker.
Mr. BELIN. Was it taken under your direction and supervision, Mr. Day?
Mr. DAY. Yes, sir; I was present. The two metal boxes you will note to the left, are our fingerprint equipment that inadvertently got into the picture with a wide-angle lens camera.
Mr. BELIN. When you say to the left----
Mr. DAY. To the right.
Mr. BELIN. You mean as you face the picture to the right.
Mr. DAY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you want to circle on Exhibit 723 your fingerprint equipment?
Mr. DAY. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Now, I will ask you to state if you know if this picture was taken before any of the boxes shown on 723 were moved.
Mr. DAY. To the best of my knowledge they had not been moved.

No doubt there was/is huge confusion on the photos and timeline.
CE503, CE508, CE723 are the same photo showing the fingerprint box and CE142. The trouble is that this photo is taken much later than CE726, CE715, CE716 and even later than CE733, CE734.

[Patrick Jackson]

Here is another detail I have found on CE503/CE508/CE723. There seems to be a rifle next to the paper wrapper. There is an object similar to rifle front band and there is something looking as rifle barrel. The object looks to be too high so it is most probably placed on top of a box.
I was searching close to see if this can be part of a window frame but could not find these two dots on any picture showing frame.
I have included Carcano front band.

[Charles Collins]

Here is another detail I have found on CE503/CE508/CE723. There seems to be a rifle next to the paper wrapper. There is an object similar to rifle front band and there is something looking as rifle barrel. The object looks to be too high so it is most probably placed on top of a box.
I was searching close to see if this can be part of a window frame but could not find these two dots on any picture showing frame.
I have included Carcano front band.

Interesting! The end of the barrel looks thick. Have you looked at the shotguns that some of the officers were carrying right after the shooting to see if they had a similar band?