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Author Topic: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?  (Read 118338 times)

Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #80 on: June 27, 2019, 12:36:09 AM »
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LOL.  Try to figure out the difference for jurisdictional purposes.  Can you afford Roger Collins' fees for his legal advice on the topic?  Great contrarian argument on the ring "No it doesn't".  Whew.  Let's see.  Oswald leaves his wedding ring at home for the first and only time of his marriage on the very day he is arrested for assassinating the president and killing a police officer.  What bad luck for him if it was just a wild coincidence.  If leaving his wedding ring at home was the ONLY evidence against Oswald in those cases, it would not be very probative.  In the totality of all the evidence, however, (known as planet Earth) it becomes highly probative.  It points to foreknowledge of some event that day that might preclude him from ever seeing his family again.

The only thing I take away from your ramblings in response to my "no it doesn't" comment, which btw every reasonable, sane, person will agree with, is that you are paddling like a duck, hoping nobody will notice that you clearly are unable to answer my question. So, let's try this again, shall we?


You in your infinite wisdom stupidity wrote;


It still appears to elude you that there could be no change in venue from Texas to another state for a crime that was committed in Texas that violated Texas law (i.e. murder).   You may want to consult a lawyer like Roger Collins about why that is not an option.


to which I replied;


It seems to elude you two clowns that my comment had nothing to do with the content of the message and everything with the silly way it was presented.

As to the content itself; anybody who equates a change of venue to an automatic change of jurisdiction doesn't know the first thing about the law.

I'm not going to go into it too much as that would mean risking losing these two "legal scholars" along the way pretty qiuckly, but I will ask them this very simple question;

If the murder of JFK falls under the jurisdiction of the state of Texas, why was Clay Shaw, who was charged as a conspirator in Kennedy's murder, put on trial in New Orleans?

Any answers?


Well, Richard, since you claimed there was no other option but to have a trial in Texas, please explain to us why Clay Shaw, who was indeed charged as a consiprator in Kennedy's murder in Texas, was on trial in New Orleans?


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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #80 on: June 27, 2019, 12:36:09 AM »


Offline Denis Pointing

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #81 on: June 27, 2019, 01:10:48 AM »
Well, Richard, since you claimed there was no other option but to have a trial in Texas, please explain to us why Clay Shaw, who was indeed charged as a consiprator in Kennedy's murder in Texas, was on trial in New Orleans?

Martin, Clay Shaw was arrested and charged in New Orleans on March 1, 1967, on conspiracy of murdering Kennedy. The murder was carried out in Texas but the actual conspiracy took place in New Orleans.

Online Charles Collins

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2019, 01:24:47 AM »
Martin, Clay Shaw was arrested and charged in New Orleans on March 1, 1967, on conspiracy of murdering Kennedy. The murder was carried out in Texas but the actual conspiracy took place in New Orleans.

...actual conspiracy took place in New Orleans.

...alleged conspiracy supposedly took place in New Orleans.

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #82 on: June 27, 2019, 01:24:47 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #83 on: June 27, 2019, 01:32:45 AM »
Martin, Clay Shaw was arrested and charged in New Orleans on March 1, 1967, on conspiracy of murdering Kennedy. The murder was carried out in Texas but the actual conspiracy took place in New Orleans.

Denis, I'm pretty sure you will agree that anybody found guilty of being part of a conspiracy to commit murder is equally guilty of that murder as the person who actually pulled the trigger, regardless when and where the plan for the murder was made.

The trial of Clay Shaw was not only about his possible involvement in the conspiracy, but also, and very much so, about the actual murder itself. Now, let's assume for a moment that Shaw had been found guilty of being part of a conspiracy to murder Kennedy, would that, in your opinion, provoke a second trial in Texas about the actual murder itself (which seems to be what Richard's claim requires) or would double jeopardy prevent such a case to go forward?


« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 01:35:44 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline Denis Pointing

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2019, 01:58:57 AM »
Denis, I'm pretty sure you will agree that anybody found guilty of being part of a conspiracy to commit murder is equally guilty of that murder as the person who actually pulled the trigger, regardless when and where the plan for the murder was made.

The trial of Clay Shaw was not only about his possible involvement in the conspiracy, but also, and very much so, about the actual murder itself. Now, let's assume for a moment that Shaw had been found guilty of being part of a conspiracy to murder Kennedy, would that, in your opinion, provoke a second trial in Texas about the actual murder itself (which seems to be what Richard's claim requires) or would double jeopardy prevent such a case to go forward?

Martin, I'm just answering your question as to why Shaw's trial was in New Orleans and not Texas. As to if Oswald could only have been put on trial in Texas or not, I honestly don't know. I'm from Britain and know very little about USA state laws. What I do know is that defendants are generally, if not always, put on trial in the state they're charged in. Are there precedents to making exceptions? Would those exceptions have covered Oswald? I haven't a clue.
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 02:03:11 AM by Denis Pointing »

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #84 on: June 27, 2019, 01:58:57 AM »


Offline Martin Weidmann

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #85 on: June 27, 2019, 02:27:45 AM »
Martin, I'm just answering your question as to why Shaw's trial was in New Orleans and not Texas. As to if Oswald could only have been put on trial in Texas or not, I honestly don't know. I'm from Britain and know very little about USA state laws. What I do know is that defendants are generally put on trial in the state they're charged in. Are there precedents to making exceptions? Would those exceptions have covered Oswald? I havent a clue.

Thanks for that, Denis. I fully understand where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. First of all, if Shaw was a co-conspirator he would be in the same legal position as Oswald was, if indeed Oswald was part of the conspiracy. In other words, whatever rules would apply to Oswald should also apply to his co-conspirators, right?

Secondly, you are indeed correct in saying that defendants are generally put on trial in the state the murder took place and thus in the state they're charged in. However, in this case Shaw was not extradited to Texas, like one would usually expect for a murder suspect/conspirator charged with a crime in Texas. His trial went forward in New Orleans instead, making Richard's claim that a trial about a murder in Texas always has to be held in Texas a bit silly.

It seems to me that the Clay Shaw trial was held in New Orleans and not Texas simply because Texas didn't want it. They had never charged Shaw with anything and as far as they were concerned the case was closed (which it never is when unresolved by the death of the suspect). They, and I don't know this for a fact. most likely simply didn't want any part of Garrison prosectution.

Having said that, the Clay Shaw trial in New Orleans proves beyond any doubt that Richard Smith was only blowing hot air when he pretended to be a know it all armchair lawyer. The fact that Richard Smith hasn't been able to answer the question I asked him just confirms the same as well.

« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 02:55:00 AM by Martin Weidmann »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #86 on: June 27, 2019, 05:37:59 AM »
Thanks for that, Denis. I fully understand where you are coming from, but I have to disagree. First of all, if Shaw was a co-conspirator he would be in the same legal position as Oswald was, if indeed Oswald was part of the conspiracy. In other words, whatever rules would apply to Oswald should also apply to his co-conspirators, right?

Secondly, you are indeed correct in saying that defendants are generally put on trial in the state the murder took place and thus in the state they're charged in. However, in this case Shaw was not extradited to Texas, like one would usually expect for a murder suspect/conspirator charged with a crime in Texas. His trial went forward in New Orleans instead, making Richard's claim that a trial about a murder in Texas always has to be held in Texas a bit silly.

It seems to me that the Clay Shaw trial was held in New Orleans and not Texas simply because Texas didn't want it. They had never charged Shaw with anything and as far as they were concerned the case was closed (which it never is when unresolved by the death of the suspect). They, and I don't know this for a fact. most likely simply didn't want any part of Garrison prosectution.

Having said that, the Clay Shaw trial in New Orleans proves beyond any doubt that Richard Smith was only blowing hot air when he pretended to be a know it all armchair lawyer. The fact that Richard Smith hasn't been able to answer the question I asked him just confirms the same as well.

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It seems to me that the Clay Shaw trial was held in New Orleans and not Texas simply because Texas didn't want it.

So you're just guessing the reason why the trial wasn't in Dallas, then you go on to make a beyond any doubt conclusion, maybe it's best for you to contact Roger Collins for some clarification?

JohnM
« Last Edit: June 27, 2019, 06:21:29 AM by John Mytton »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2019, 09:06:11 AM »
The problem is, you've actually been dead for decades sir, maybe even 1.5 centuries. So why the fake name?

Pretty shallow.

Another Creep who googles my name.

STOP stalking me!

JohnM

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Re: CT's, in court how would you defend Oswald?
« Reply #87 on: June 27, 2019, 09:06:11 AM »