Could there have been a necessary and legitimate CIA/FBI cover up?

[Jon Banks]

Hi Jon, I looked thru the Atlantic website and found the following; "During coffee, the talk turned to President Kennedy, and Johnson expressed his belief that the assassination in Dallas had been part of a conspiracy. "I never believed that Oswald acted alone, although I can accept that he pulled the trigger." Johnson said that when he had taken office he found that "we had been operating a damned Murder Inc. in the Caribbean." A year or so before Kennedy's death a CIA-backed assassination team had been picked up in Havana. Johnson speculated that Dallas had been a retaliation for this thwarted attempt, although he couldn't prove it."
As you can see, no mention of the "Russians". If you know of another reference to Russia that I may have missed, could you post a link to it, please? Also, in Johnson's own words, his suspicions were just speculations. Former President or not, I don't hold Johnson's 'speculations' any higher than I would anyone else's.
As for the rest of your post, FWIW, I can't find too much I'd disagree with. I've often suggested that Oswald was playing a 'game' of spymaster with himself and in that capacity may have been a low-level snitch for one or more of the agencies, not important enough to be classified as an asset, certainly not an agent. Just a 'snitch' occasionally coming up with something useful.

You are correct on that. The actual quote suggests LBJ suspected Castro not the Soviets. However, in Johnson’s worldview it made no difference. He believed all Communist countries were part of the same global hegemony.

I also thought this quote from Johnson was interesting:

“ "After the Warren Commission reported in, I asked Ramsey Clark [then Attorney General] to quietly look into the whole thing. Only two weeks later he reported back that he couldn't find anything new." Disgust tinged Johnson's voice as the conversation came to an end. "I thought I had appointed Tom Clark's son—I was wrong...”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1973/07/the-last-days-of-the-president/376281/

I believe Johnson made what he believed was a National Security decision in 1963 to quickly endorse the “Lone Nut” narrative and discourage investigations of Conspiratorial leads in the JFK assassination.

His doubts about the WC’s conclusions and curiosity about Conspiracy years later proves that he knowingly covered up a possible Conspiracy with his rush to support the Lone Assassin narrative.

[Gary Craig]

Michael Paine did not have a file cabinet filled with intelligence contents in his garage.

The file box found in the garage was identified by Marina as belonging to Oswald. She said he would keep some of his political material in the file box.

Mr. THORNE. Exhibit 125 is a file cabinet for presumably three by five or five by seven inch cards.
Mrs. OSWALD. Lee kept his printing things in that, pencils.
Mr. RANKIN. The things that he printed his Fair Play for Cuba leaflets on?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Pencils and materials that he used in connection with that matter?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.
Mr. RANKIN. Did he have any index cards in that metal case?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes, he had some.

The "intelligence monitoring" was done by the FBI. This was done, of course, because he had defected to the USSR and then returned. The agent assigned to monitor Oswald never met him, never interviewed him, and didn't know what he looked like. Some "monitoring."

"The file box found in the garage"

It was a "set of metal file cabinets"(plural) not a single file box as you are and the WC implied.

[Denis Pointing]

You are correct on that. The actual quote suggests LBJ suspected Castro not the Soviets. However, in Johnson’s worldview it made no difference. He believed all Communist countries were part of the same global hegemony.

I also thought this quote from Johnson was interesting:

“ "After the Warren Commission reported in, I asked Ramsey Clark [then Attorney General] to quietly look into the whole thing. Only two weeks later he reported back that he couldn't find anything new." Disgust tinged Johnson's voice as the conversation came to an end. "I thought I had appointed Tom Clark's son—I was wrong...”

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1973/07/the-last-days-of-the-president/376281/

I believe Johnson made what he believed was a National Security decision in 1963 to quickly endorse the “Lone Nut” narrative and discourage investigations of Conspiratorial leads in the JFK assassination.

His doubts about the WC’s conclusions and curiosity about Conspiracy years later proves that he knowingly covered up a possible Conspiracy with his rush to support the Lone Assassin narrative.

Jon, Johnson certainly didn't want to find a conspiracy, we agree on that. At least some of the WC members may well have been put in place to steer the rest away if one had been found. Ironically, I don't believe it was necessary..there simply wasn't a conspiracy to be found. It's been over fifty years, the evidence has been more thoroughly scrutinised and picked over than any other murder in history, not just once but repeatedly over and over. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of independent researchers, some being highly trained professional's, have investigated the assassination far more thoroughly than the WC ever could. Result? Not a single shred of proof has surfaced that Oswald wasn't just another lone nut killer. Do you really place an ex Presidents suspicions and speculations, basically a gut feeling, above all that?

[Tom Scully]

Jon, Johnson certainly didn't want to find a conspiracy, we agree on that. At least some of the WC members may well have been put in place to steer the rest away if one had been found. Ironically, I don't believe it was necessary..there simply wasn't a conspiracy to be found. It's been over fifty years, the evidence has been more thoroughly scrutinised and picked over than any other murder in history, not just once but repeatedly over and over. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of independent researchers, some being highly trained professional's, have investigated the assassination far more thoroughly than the WC ever could. Result? Not a single shred of proof has surfaced that Oswald wasn't just another lone nut killer. Do you really place an ex Presidents suspicions and speculations, basically a gut feeling, above all that?

The evidence stresses your conclusions. Bottom section the NY Times article image displayed further below, titled, "Stuart Johnson dies in a fall":
(Who was Mr. Thomas, an obvious question under less weighty circumstances, but below we have Stuart Johnson's daughter Priscilla in a sworn deposition describing how the concealed suicide of her father impacted her work.


1959:

https://www.nytimes.com/1959/12/16/archives/flow-of-nickel-from-cuba-halts-big-usowned-nicaro-plant-stops.html
FLOW OF NICKEL FROM CUBA HALTS; Big U.S.-Owned Nicaro Plant Stops Shipments -- New Mining Law Blamed PROGRAM IS LAGGING Construction of Facility for Freeport Sulphur Co. Is Far Behind Schedule FLOW OF NICKEL FROM CUBA HALTS
By PETER B. BARTDEC. 16, 1959

This fall, if all had gone according to plan, Cuba was to have become second only to Canada in world nickel production.VIEW FULL ARTICLE IN TIMESMACHINE »....

1954:

Intermediate Report of the Committee on Government Operations
https://books.google.nl/books?id=L4XRAAAAMAAJ - Vertaal deze pagina

United States. Congress. House. Committee on Government Operations - 1955 - ‎Fragmentweergave - ‎Meer edities
Mr. Mansure testified that Mr. Talbott did not recommend any contractor. Mr. Cremer testified that he requested Mr. Talbott, who was familiar with the Nicaro situation, to pass his knowledge of Snare's unique qualifications along to Mr. Mansure.

There is the coincidence of the mention of cousin Foster, below, and in the society debut announcement of the candidate debutant, Eleanor Thomas. Eleanor's brother James Augustus Thomas was the last to see Priscilla Johnson's father alive.

https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/546899133/
Publication: Bennington Banner i Location: Bennington, Vermont Issue Date: Thursday, April 11, 1985 Page: 20

EDITH D. SNARE DORSET - Edith Dulles Snare, 88, cousin of the late John Foster Dulles, died Wednesday at her home in Dorset, where she had lived for the past 45 years. She had formerly resided in Englewood, N.J. Active in local affairs, Mrs. Snare was a founder of the Dorset Nursing Association, an early executive director of the Southern Vermont Artists Association of Manchester, and established Snare Associates Real Estate in the 1950s. She leaves two daughters, Dorothy Warner of Dorset and Naples, Fla....

....
Bennington Evening Banner Newspaper Archives, Feb 14, 1958
https://newspaperarchive.com/bennington-evening-banner-feb-14-1958-p-1/
... expressing his ardor for Ellen Axson, the preacher's daughter who bacame his first wife in 1885. .... Full Weekend Planned For Ambassadors MANCHESTER — Two ... minded voters that Bennington Dr. Djalal Abdoh, Iranian am- has ordered all ... Edith Dulles Snare is hostess to will happen if Bennington does not1 Pratt ...

http://archive.is/esTuB
.....

A Pioneer Tobacco Merchant in the Orient
Search domain http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/findingaids/thomasjamesaug.xmlhttps://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/findingaids/thomasjamesaug.xml
In 1918, Thomas married Anna Branson who died 7 months later. In 1922, he married Dorothy Quincy Hancock Read on Nov. 21, 1922. They had two children: James Augustus Thomas, Jr. and Eleanor Lansing Thomas. Thomas was the author of two books:

https://archive.is/o/esTuB/www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=95330&relPageId=42

......

WHY IS THE FOLLOWING IMPORTANT? Because David Davenport's friend, Jerome Hasty Hastings was married at the time Davenport enlisted his efforts to escort Marina and Priscilla, to Aunt of the Chair of the PIAB since April, 1963, Clark McAdams Clifford. In 1965, Clark M Clifford's first cousin JoAnn McAdams filed a lawsuit against Davenport and described Jerome Hasty as her step-father.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President%27s_Intelligence_Advisory_Board
The President's Intelligence Advisory Board (PIAB) is an advisor to the Executive Office of the President of the United States. According to its self-description, it "...provides advice to the President concerning the quality and adequacy of intelligence collection, of analysis and estimates, of counterintelligence, and of other intelligence activities."[1]

The PIAB, through its Intelligence Oversight Board (IOB), also advises the President on the legality of foreign intelligence activities.
.....PIAB chairpersons have been:[27]
......Clark Clifford   April 23, 1963   February 29, 1968....

COMPARE DETAILS IN LAST PARAGRAPH OF THIS 1954 OBIT OF CLARK CLIFFORD UNCLE WITH THE LAST PARAGRAPH OF THE LAWSUIT!

Las Vegas Optic, Monday, July 31, 1967 : Front Page
https://newspaperarchive.com/las-vegas-optic-jul-31-1967-p-1/

... the plaintiff of being mentally ill and recom mended that judicial proceedings ... pick Aliss McAdams further states in her complaint she up ran into the rear of.....

….
1954 Obit:

…..

[Jon Banks]

Jon, Johnson certainly didn't want to find a conspiracy, we agree on that. At least some of the WC members may well have been put in place to steer the rest away if one had been found. Ironically, I don't believe it was necessary..there simply wasn't a conspiracy to be found. It's been over fifty years, the evidence has been more thoroughly scrutinised and picked over than any other murder in history, not just once but repeatedly over and over. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of independent researchers, some being highly trained professional's, have investigated the assassination far more thoroughly than the WC ever could. Result? Not a single shred of proof has surfaced that Oswald wasn't just another lone nut killer. Do you really place an ex Presidents suspicions and speculations, basically a gut feeling, above all that?

I keep an open mind on the whole thing.

At this point, I doubt it can ever be satisfactorily proven that Oswald alone killed JFK.

There’s plenty of Smoke surrounding the Conspiracy question and plenty of Holes in the evidence used to conclude Oswald alone killed JFK.

As for Johnson’s opinion, it’s historically relevant because it proves that the investigators never seriously investigated the possible Conspiratorial leads in the case. Pressure from the White House and J Edgar Hoover led to evidence being suppressed or ignored. Potential suspects died long before the government took another serious look at the Case in the 1970s.

How anyone can confidently accept the Warren Commission’s conclusions despite all the above mentioned problems, I’m not sure.

I accept that it’s plausible based on the known evidence that Oswald alone killed JFK but I’m not convinced that no one else was involved.

[Denis Pointing]

I keep an open mind on the whole thing.

Yeah, sure you do Jon. lol

At this point, I doubt it can ever be satisfactorily proven that Oswald alone killed JFK.

It's already been proven to my and many others satisfaction.

There’s plenty of Smoke surrounding the Conspiracy question and plenty of Holes in the evidence used to conclude Oswald alone killed JFK.

Oh, so it's a case of no smoke without fire then, is it?

As for Johnson’s opinion, it’s historically relevant because it proves that the investigators never seriously investigated the possible Conspiratorial leads in the case. Pressure from the White House and J Edgar Hoover led to evidence being suppressed or ignored. Potential suspects died long before the government took another serious look at the Case in the 1970s.

How anyone can confidently accept the Warren Commission’s conclusions despite all the above mentioned problems, I’m not sure.

I accept that it’s plausible based on the known evidence that Oswald alone killed JFK but I’m not convinced that no one else was involved.

It's not a case of accepting the WC's final conclusions, it's a case of examing the evidence and agreeing with WC's final conclusions, huge difference.

[Jon Banks]

Yeah, sure you do Jon. lol

It's already been proven to my and many others satisfaction.
 

Oh, so it's a case of no smoke without fire then, is it?
 

It's not a case of accepting the WC's final conclusions, it's a case of examing the evidence and agreeing with WC's final conclusions, huge difference.

We simply don’t agree on the Warren Report but I’m glad you deleted your response about the CoverUps. Even the CIA and FBI no longer deny that there were CoverUps.

There are mountains of evidence proving that the decision to go with the “Lone Nut” explanation was decided within hours of JFK’s murder and before all the evidence had been collected and analyzed.

Johnson endorsed the “Lone Nut” narrative for National Security reasons, not because he believed it...