Why the first shot missed

[John Iacoletti]

1) If in your opinion there is not even any circumstantial evidence that tends to incriminate Oswald for the assassination of JFK, does that mean you think (sic) "Lone Nutters" have been fooled by "evidence" that was fabricated against him?

Even if there was no fabrication, the existing evidence (real evidence, not silly crap like "why did he leave his wedding ring?") does not demonstrate who killed Kennedy.  Not to anything even approaching beyond a reasonable doubt.  The fact that the few pieces of actual evidence are weak, circumstantial, and questionable or tainted in some way is just gravy.

2) In your humble opinion, which of these is an incorrect description of Oswald:

A) He was psychologically disturbed.

Yes.  What are you basing this on?  A report from when he was 13?  That doesn't even say "psychologically disturbed" anywhere?

B) He was a sharpshooter.

Yes.  You mean barely qualifying as one 7 years earlier?

C) He was a self-described Marxist.

You got that one right.  But what does that have to do with anything?

[Tom Graves]

Even if there was no fabrication, the existing evidence (real evidence, not silly crap like "why did he leave his wedding ring?") does not demonstrate who killed Kennedy.  Not to anything even approaching beyond a reasonable doubt.  The fact that the few pieces of actual evidence are weak, circumstantial, and questionable or tainted in some way is just gravy.

Do you think (sic) there was fabrication?

Yes.  What are you basing this on?  A report from when he was 13?  That doesn't even say "psychologically disturbed" anywhere?

Psychologists tell us that our personalities are formed by age twelve. Does your birth certificate say anywhere that you're a human being?

Yes.  You mean barely qualifying as one 7 years earlier?

Anyone who has qualified as a Marine Marksman (the lowest level) is a "sharpshooter" by civilian standards.

You got that one right.  But what does that have to do with anything?

Marxists believe that history evolves through a dialectical process. Therefore, Oswald probably believed he was helping to accelerate the process by killing charismatic anti-Communist JFK.

[John Iacoletti]

Do you think (sic) there was fabrication?

It doesn't matter what I think.  It only matters what people who claim things can prove.

Psychologists tell us that our personalities are formed by age twelve. Does your birth certificate say anywhere that you're a human being?

Really?  What psychologists?

Anyone who has qualified as a Marine Marksman (the lowest level) is a "sharpshooter" by civilian standards.

Based on what criteria, exactly?

Marxists believe that history evolves through a dialectical process. Therefore, Oswald probably believed he was helping to accelerate the process by killing charismatic anti-Communist JFK.

"Probably".  LOL.

It's funny, though.  The people passing around leaflets, didn't think Kennedy was "anti-Communist".

[Tom Graves]

The people passing around leaflets didn't think Kennedy was "anti-Communist".

Did JFK say, "I am a Berliner" (in German)?

Did JFK stand up to Khruschev during the Cuban Missile Crisis?

Were JFK and RFK trying to kill Castro?

I could go on and on.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

How old are you? You LNer trolls are the reason I don't bother with this site any more. You have no critical thinking skills and you wouldn't know a fallacy if it bucked (ryhmes with f*cked) you in your arse. The irony is that the Lone Nut Conspiracy Theory has a hold of you Neo.

I have no intention of engaging with you tin foil hat LNers at least until you grow up and learn how to use logic to make an argument. Maybe then you can debate like an adult. Until then, later dude.

 

He's not a lone nutter. He believes the KGB/Soviets were behind the assassination. Or a group of them; the so-called "inner" KGB. That is to say, he's a conspiracist.

[Tom Graves]

He's not a lone nutter. He believes the KGB/Soviets were behind the assassination. Or a group of them; the so-called "inner" KGB. That is to say, he's a conspiracist.

If you're referring to me, you've misread me.

My believing that a probable KGB mole by the name of Bruce Leonard Solie (look him up) in the CIA's mole-hunting Office of Security sent (or duped his confidant, protégé, and mole-hunting subordinate, James Angleton, into sending) Oswald to Moscow in 1959 as an ostensible "dangle" in a planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA -- which mole hunt lasted nine years, tore the CIA apart and drove Angleton nuts -- doesn't necessarily mean that I believe the KGB was behind the JFKA (although there are some tantalizing clues that it was).

The "Inner KGB" that you alluded to (Department D of the First Chief Directorate -- foreign intelligence -- today's SVR) was created in 1959 when the Kremlin realized that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact couldn't defeat the U.S. and NATO militarily and decided to get us to get us to tear ourselves apart, instead (Can you say Donald J. Trump?). General Gribanov of the more secretive Second Chief Directorate (domestic intelligence and overall counterintelligence -- today's FSB), not to be outdone, set up his own Sun Tzu-based Department 14 in the SCD, and, as soon as CIA's spy Oleg Penkovsky had been "trapped like a bear in its den" in such a way as to not reveal who in U.S. or British intelligence had betrayed him within two weeks of his April 1961 recruitment, sent Aleksei Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA) and Dmitry Polyakov (TOPHAT) to the FBI's NYC field office to "volunteer" to spy for it at the U.N.

Six months after KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn's 12/15/61 defection to the U.S., Gribanov sent false-defector-in-place Yuri Nosenko to the CIA in Geneva to discredit what Golitsyn was telling Angleton about penetrations of U.S. Intelligence and the intelligence services of our NATO allies, which intel, unfortunately, Angleton was naively sharing with the aforementioned Bruce Leonard Solie (do remember to look him up) just as he'd shared intel with his earlier father figure, Kim Philby.

[Steve M. Galbraith]

If you're referring to me, you've misread me.

My believing that a probable KGB mole by the name of Bruce Leonard Solie (look him up) in the CIA's mole-hunting Office of Security sent (or duped his confidant, protégé, and mole-hunting subordinate, James Angleton, into sending) Oswald to Moscow in 1959 as an ostensible "dangle" in a planned-to-fail hunt for "Popov's U-2 Mole" (Solie) in the wrong part of the CIA -- which mole hunt lasted nine years, tore the CIA apart and drove Angleton nuts -- doesn't necessarily mean that I believe the KGB was behind the JFKA (although there are some tantalizing clues that it was).

The "Inner KGB" that you alluded to (Department D of the First Chief Directorate -- foreign intelligence -- today's SVR) was created in 1959 when the Kremlin realized that the USSR and the Warsaw Pact couldn't defeat the U.S. and NATO militarily and decided to get us to get us to tear ourselves apart, instead (Can you say Donald J. Trump?). General Gribanov of the more secretive Second Chief Directorate (domestic intelligence and overall counterintelligence -- today's FSB), not to be outdone, set up his own Sun Tzu-based Department 14 in the SCD, and, as soon as CIA's spy Oleg Penkovsky had been "trapped like a bear in its den" in such a way as to not reveal who in U.S. or British intelligence had betrayed him within two weeks of his April 1961 recruitment, sent Aleksei Kulak (J. Edgar Hoover's shielded-from-CIA FEDORA) and Dmitry Polyakov (TOPHAT) to the FBI's NYC field office to "volunteer" to spy for it at the U.N.

Six months after KGB Major Anatoliy Golitsyn's 12/15/61 defection to the U.S., Gribanov sent false-defector-in-place Yuri Nosenko to the CIA in Geneva to discredit what Golitsyn was telling Angleton about penetrations of U.S. Intelligence and the intelligence services of our NATO allies, which intel, unfortunately, Angleton was naively sharing with the aforementioned Bruce Leonard Solie (do remember to look him up) just as he'd shared intel with his earlier father figure, Kim Philby.

You've said before - if I recall the details - that, among other things, the Soviets connected Oswald to Kostikov through the CIA monitored phone call in Mexico City to prevent a fuller investigation out of a fear that an investigation would lead back to Kostikov and Department Thirteen. And from there to WWIII. You've also said Nosenko was a false defector sent in part to mislead the CIA about their relationship with Oswald.

Why did the Soviets do this if they weren't involved?

If I have the above wrong you can of course correct me.

[Tom Graves]

You've said before - if I recall the details - that, among other things, the Soviets connected Oswald to Kostikov through the CIA monitored phone call in Mexico City to prevent a fuller investigation out of a fear that an investigation would lead back to Kostikov and Department Thirteen. And from there to WWIII. You've also said Nosenko was a false defector sent in part to mislead the CIA about their relationship with Oswald.

Why did the Soviets do this if they weren't involved?

If I have the above wrong you can of course correct me.

Not only that, but KGB true defector Pyotr Deriabin (1954) wrote a couple of days after the assassination that (former KGB "swallow") Marina had to be at least a low-level KGB informant to be permitted to marry Oswald and leave the USSR with him, and, according to Richard Russell in his book, "The Man Who Knew Too Much," CIA counterintelligence analyst Clare Edward Petty read some WW II VENONA decrypts in the early 1970s which convinced him that GdM was very probably a long-term KGB "illegal."

I mean, I mean, I mean . . . how equivocal do you want me to be? (LOL)

The truly important thing, however, is that whether or not the KGB (or the DGI) killed JFK, the former has been "making hay" out of the anomaly-replete assassination since virtually Day One, and the tinfoil-hat conspiracy theories is has promulgated and encouraged over the past sixty years have helped to make cynical, paranoiac and apathetic our body politic to such a degree that "former" KGB officer Vladimir Putin was able to install The Traitorous Orange Dude as our "president" in 2017 and 2025.

IMHO, Russia won The Cold War on 5 November 2024.