Why the first shot missed

[Charles Collins]

JohnM

Thanks John, it appears to me that the photo of the actual sniper's nest was taken after the boxes had been moved for fingerprinting and then put back. And it appears to me that they positioned them closer to the center of the window than they originally were. The photos of the reenactment in Max Holland's mock-up, with the guy kneeling, don't include the box that the sniper was sitting on. My contention is that that box would be in the way of his lower legs and feet in that kneeling position. Here are a few photos to illustrate my point.


This first one shows a top (plan) view of the sniper's nest. The box he was sitting on is about 16.5" from the south wall, as indicated in Day's testimony. The 3 boxes just inside the window are positioned closer to the east than in your photo. This agrees with the Dillard telephoto photograph taken seconds after the last shot. The result is that there is very little room between the sitting box and the other boxes for someone to kneel without some interference.



This one includes the sniper sitting on the box and leaning forward. It is the position that is used for the view from Brennan's position. If the sniper sits straight up he is out of view from Brennan's position. And the sniper has a view of all three of the positions of the limo for shots at: just before Z133, Z225, and Z313 without moving much at all.



Finally, Max Holland says in his program that the box the sniper was sitting on was in about the position in this photo. However it was actually much closer as I have shown above. And Max appears to be sitting on two boxes, so he was much higher than the sniper.

[Charles Collins]

What makes you think shots were taken while seated on the box? I should think that Oswald had to right at that window in order to be seen from the street.

See my previous response to Mytton.

[Charles Collins]

View angle for Z133 shot. Holland places his early shot a little before this.

Eye level is good and I suppose up to three seconds of tracking (limousine length is roughly two-seconds of travel??).

Yes, you got it pretty much the same as I did. Is your setup layout to accurate measurements? If so, it tends to confirm my findings. Very nice!

[Jim Brunsman]

I think it's hilarious but tragic that people are still trying to "shoehorn" LHO into that window with malicious intent. There are a lot of potential assassins I'd be concerned about, but "Lee Hardly" is not one of them, especially with his unimpressive shooting record and that embarrassing rifle. Virtually every bit of evidence in this case has been tampered with or has a dubious chain of possession. Autopsy witnesses reported bullets and fragments recovered that were never introduced as evidence.

If there was a lone assassin, everything would line up perfectly and there would be no controversy. What we find is quite the opposite, with corrupt officials at the highest levels of our government covering up the truth from the outset.

You nutters are aware that Max Holland is a paid shill of the CIA, right? The guy is so oily, he makes me ill. He has concocted some of the most idiotic assassination scenarios I've ever heard and you people quote this genius? Again, it's embarrassing. Holland and Posner should start a detective agency together...

Again, I have to beg all of you: DON'T EAT THE CHEESE! IT'S A TRAP AND YOU ARE DECEIVING HISTORY! It is painfully obvious LHO was the patsy he claimed to be and it is an atrocity that you duped nutters continue to perpetuate the impossible notion of a lone assassin. The cockamamie story concocted by Specter needs to be filed in the only appropriate place for such malodorous waste: the toilet at the National Archives...

[Denis Pointing]

I think it's hilarious but tragic that people are still trying to "shoehorn" LHO into that window with malicious intent. There are a lot of potential assassins I'd be concerned about, but "Lee Hardly" is not one of them, especially with his unimpressive shooting record and that embarrassing rifle. Virtually every bit of evidence in this case has been tampered with or has a dubious chain of possession. Autopsy witnesses reported bullets and fragments recovered that were never introduced as evidence.

If there was a lone assassin, everything would line up perfectly and there would be no controversy. What we find is quite the opposite, with corrupt officials at the highest levels of our government covering up the truth from the outset.

You nutters are aware that Max Holland is a paid shill of the CIA, right? The guy is so oily, he makes me ill. He has concocted some of the most idiotic assassination scenarios I've ever heard and you people quote this genius? Again, it's embarrassing. Holland and Posner should start a detective agency together...

Again, I have to beg all of you: DON'T EAT THE CHEESE! IT'S A TRAP AND YOU ARE DECEIVING HISTORY! It is painfully obvious LHO was the patsy he claimed to be and it is an atrocity that you duped nutters continue to perpetuate the impossible notion of a lone assassin. The cockamamie story concocted by Specter needs to be filed in the only appropriate place for such malodorous waste: the toilet at the National Archives...

Always the same from this guy, loads of opinion and posits..never a scrap of fact or evidence to back any of it up. In a previous post you wrote: "I should have kept my opinions to myself." What happened?

[Charles Collins]

In my model there is room for the left leg to brace itself between the pipe and Box C and plenty of room for the right leg. Possibly the right foot braced against a box on the floor.

I am using a 5' 9" generic male standing model that I manually articulated (SketchUp doesn't allow articulated models that intuitively reset facets like more-advanced programs). When I bend the joints, facets retain their "standing" positions. I have left the hips and above articulated.

Nice work! I don’t doubt that it is feasible to get into that position. But I do question whether or not it would be awkward and time consuming. And I don’t really believe that it would be advantageous. I do believe that this could be studied further with a physical mock-up similar to the one used in Max Holland’s film.

[Charles Collins]

In my model there is room for the left leg to brace itself between the pipe and Box C and plenty of room for the right leg. Possibly the right foot braced against a box on the floor. He would be seated on Box D.

I am using a 5' 9" generic male standing model that I manually articulated (SketchUp doesn't allow articulated models that intuitively reset facets like more-advanced programs). When I bend the joints, facets retain their "standing" positions. I have left the hips and above unarticulated.

Also Jerry, here is a photo of a page of the Marines Guidebook from that era. Notice that the kneeling position typically utilizes the right foot as a place to sit (for stability). This would not be feasible in the sniper's nest because the sitting box would be in the way. However, it does appear that you have him still using the box for that purpose. So, I believe it is feasible and could have happened that way. But, until I try it myself, it seems like it would be awkward and time consuming and unnecessary.

[Chris Davidson]

More WC "sleight of hand-y" work.

Once it's realized the "limo front/bumper" is not the same location as "JFK within the limo" you might have a better appreciation for what they were trying to accomplish.