Why the first shot missed

[Denis Pointing]

Your suggestion as to purpose made me wonder if the pipes could be for dry-venting. I think the pipes were put in after the building was built; they look so unplanned. They seem to go through the ceiling on the seventh floor. Doesn't the seventh floor seem high? I suppose pre-AC, some top floors in Texas had the extra height for ventilation.

Jerry, found the following:
"The original building at the corner of Elm and Houston, in Dallas, was built by the Rock Island Plow Company in 1898. Three years later the building was struck by lightning, nearly burned to the ground, and was rebuilt the following year. There were now 7 floors in the building, each with about 10,000 square feet, and a basement. The building was constructed with single wall and single floor construction. Single wall construction is where a single layer of wood is attached to one side of an exterior wall. Single floor construction is where boards are attached to the top side of floor joists with nothing attached to the bottom side of the floor joist. Today, modern buildings are "double wall" construction, and have layers of material attached to both sides of the walls and ceilings. In most cases, the second layer of material is sheet rock.
In early 1963 the 60-year old building underwent extensive remodeling and was refurbished with new interior walls, partitions, updated lighting, plumbing, sprinkler systems and, perhaps the most important improvement, air conditioning."

[Ray Mitcham]

You're showing your age using that expression Ray and I'm showing mine by knowing what it means. lol Would 'jerry builder' be classed as racist in these PC times? 

Not racist, if you mean in the sense of Gerry (as in german) built as I believe the meaning comes from "Jury built" as in a jury sail, a temporary sale rigged up in an emergency.

You're right about age , the kids on here have probably never heard the expression.

[Denis Pointing]

Not racist, if you mean in the sense of Gerry (as in german) built as I believe the meaning comes from "Jury built" as in a jury sail, a temporary sale rigged up in an emergency.

You're right about age , the kids on here have probably never heard the expression.

I don't believe anyone's 100% sure of the original meaning. But during WW2 the expression certainly took on a whole new meaning. England, particularly London, was being blitzed by the German's almost every night, most builders were away fighting, so emergency repairs were carried out by men and sometimes even women who were not qualified, so the work was generally under-par. These workers became known as Jerry or Gerry builders. As you know, Gerry/Jerry was British slang for German. There, a little history lesson for the 'kids' here. lol

PS Sorry, no more off-topic. I promise.

[Ray Mitcham]

I don't believe anyone's 100% sure of the original meaning. But during WW2 the expression certainly took on a whole new meaning. England, particularly London, was being blitzed by the German's almost every night, most builders were away fighting, so emergency repairs were carried out by men and sometimes even women who were not qualified, so the work was generally under-par. These workers became known as Jerry or Gerry builders. As you know, Gerry/Jerry was British slang for German. There, a little history lesson for the 'kids' here. lol

PS Sorry, no more off-topic. I promise.

Just to correct your little history lesson, Jerry. The term "jerry built" has been in use since the 19th century.

"The phrases 'jerry built'/'jerry building'/'jerry builder' have been around since at least 1869, when 'jerry built' was defined in the Lonsdale Glossary:
"Jerry-built, slightly, or unsubstantially built."
By 1901, the term began to be used figuratively - a sure sign of acceptance into the general language; for example, The Daily Chronicle, in August that year printed this opinion:
"In an age of jerry-built books it is refreshing to come across a volume that has taken forty years to compile."
The derivation is unknown. What we do know is that the term has nothing to do with the UK slang term for German - Jerry/Gerry. This is of WWI origin and the citations above pre-date that. As always when a phrase's origin is unknown people like to guess, so here goes. It is possible that the term derives from the slang term jerrycummumble or jerrymumble. This was defined in the 1811 version of Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue:
"JERRYCUMMUMBLE. To shake, towzle, or tumble about."


(just for info. Over and out)

[James Hackerott]

________

If we can do without the vertical measurements for the coupling and east pipe bends, and where the east pipe is, I'll ask Stephen to go to the seventh floor and, if he has access, measure only the west pipe from the east wall and south wall, and the width of the pipe (working with 2" for now). Maybe some floorboards are visible so he can get their width. Any of that would be representative of the sixth floor.

I'm not sure those pipes are still present on the seventh floor. I took photos and video from the seventh floor SE window pair in 2014 (yes, you can photograph on the seventh but not sixth floor). You may need to copy and paste this link in a browser window. Just a thought, would you request to Stephen he measure the circumfrance of the pipes with a tape measure? 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h9EeeYbSd4P9lsnIG1NOdoCy3A7wGB3n

I don't recall noting the pipes, but I wasn't looking for them either. This video captured views from the western window and shifted to views from the eastern window. There was a large potted plant positioned in front of the center mullion. The video is very dark inside the building. An enhanced frame below shows the most likely frame that could have captured the pipes, if present. It could be the camera just did not sweep enough to pickup them up. I do doubt those pipes would be accessible to any visitor.


I also can't remember if the seventh floor is carpeted but I think it was. While looking at my videos for evidence of carpet I found video where I recorded the FBI's model of the TSBD. I did not see carpet, but did notice three dark slat like features in the floor. Possibly, the original floor slats? If so, the FBI model was cordoned off, just to the right of the hallway connecting the elevator to the seventh floor and accessible to all. Maybe Stephen could see if those are of any value.


James
 
 

[Charles Collins]

Sniper Nest measurements from Stephen Fagin.

• Circumference of pipe = 7”
• Width of floorboard = 3.25”
• Corner to edge of brick at window = 33”

Corner --> Southeast interior corner.
Brick at window --> east edge of window's masonry opening.
 

Thanks Jerry! And thanks to Stephen Fagin for obtaining and sharing the measurements! The pipe is 2.23” in diameter if my arithmetic is correct! 😎

[James Hackerott]

Sniper Nest measurements from Stephen Fagin.

• Circumference of pipe = 7”
• Width of floorboard = 3.25”
• Corner to edge of brick at window = 33”

Corner --> Southeast interior corner.
Brick at window --> east edge of window's masonry opening.
 

Thank you Jerry and Stephen for sharing. It's much appreciated! I'm going to re-calibrate my eyeballs now .

[James Hackerott]

I had a great three and half days in Dealey Plaza this past week as an early birthday present. One unexpected find was the remnants of the pipes on the 7th floor. I had a tape measure so took these photos.  I also coincidentally met Stephen Fagin and thanked him for his help with Jerry's request. I also found out it is okay to photograph on the sixth floor also, just no flash on sixth or seventh. I got lots of photos of the glassed in SN display.

Edit - See reply #154 for an updated image.