Why the first shot missed

[Denis Pointing]

A jerry builder who admits it. Very honest of you Denis.

You're showing your age using that expression Ray and I'm showing mine by knowing what it means. lol Would 'jerry builder' be classed as racist in these PC times? 

[Denis Pointing]

Your suggestion as to purpose made me wonder if the pipes could be for dry-venting. I think the pipes were put in after the building was built; they look so unplanned. They seem to go through the ceiling on the seventh floor. Doesn't the seventh floor seem high? I suppose pre-AC, some top floors in Texas had the extra height for ventilation.

Jerry, found the following:
"The original building at the corner of Elm and Houston, in Dallas, was built by the Rock Island Plow Company in 1898. Three years later the building was struck by lightning, nearly burned to the ground, and was rebuilt the following year. There were now 7 floors in the building, each with about 10,000 square feet, and a basement. The building was constructed with single wall and single floor construction. Single wall construction is where a single layer of wood is attached to one side of an exterior wall. Single floor construction is where boards are attached to the top side of floor joists with nothing attached to the bottom side of the floor joist. Today, modern buildings are "double wall" construction, and have layers of material attached to both sides of the walls and ceilings. In most cases, the second layer of material is sheet rock.
In early 1963 the 60-year old building underwent extensive remodeling and was refurbished with new interior walls, partitions, updated lighting, plumbing, sprinkler systems and, perhaps the most important improvement, air conditioning."

[Ray Mitcham]

You're showing your age using that expression Ray and I'm showing mine by knowing what it means. lol Would 'jerry builder' be classed as racist in these PC times? 

Not racist, if you mean in the sense of Gerry (as in german) built as I believe the meaning comes from "Jury built" as in a jury sail, a temporary sale rigged up in an emergency.

You're right about age , the kids on here have probably never heard the expression.

[Denis Pointing]

Not racist, if you mean in the sense of Gerry (as in german) built as I believe the meaning comes from "Jury built" as in a jury sail, a temporary sale rigged up in an emergency.

You're right about age , the kids on here have probably never heard the expression.

I don't believe anyone's 100% sure of the original meaning. But during WW2 the expression certainly took on a whole new meaning. England, particularly London, was being blitzed by the German's almost every night, most builders were away fighting, so emergency repairs were carried out by men and sometimes even women who were not qualified, so the work was generally under-par. These workers became known as Jerry or Gerry builders. As you know, Gerry/Jerry was British slang for German. There, a little history lesson for the 'kids' here. lol

PS Sorry, no more off-topic. I promise.

[Ray Mitcham]

I don't believe anyone's 100% sure of the original meaning. But during WW2 the expression certainly took on a whole new meaning. England, particularly London, was being blitzed by the German's almost every night, most builders were away fighting, so emergency repairs were carried out by men and sometimes even women who were not qualified, so the work was generally under-par. These workers became known as Jerry or Gerry builders. As you know, Gerry/Jerry was British slang for German. There, a little history lesson for the 'kids' here. lol

PS Sorry, no more off-topic. I promise.

Just to correct your little history lesson, Jerry. The term "jerry built" has been in use since the 19th century.

"The phrases 'jerry built'/'jerry building'/'jerry builder' have been around since at least 1869, when 'jerry built' was defined in the Lonsdale Glossary:
"Jerry-built, slightly, or unsubstantially built."
By 1901, the term began to be used figuratively - a sure sign of acceptance into the general language; for example, The Daily Chronicle, in August that year printed this opinion:
"In an age of jerry-built books it is refreshing to come across a volume that has taken forty years to compile."
The derivation is unknown. What we do know is that the term has nothing to do with the UK slang term for German - Jerry/Gerry. This is of WWI origin and the citations above pre-date that. As always when a phrase's origin is unknown people like to guess, so here goes. It is possible that the term derives from the slang term jerrycummumble or jerrymumble. This was defined in the 1811 version of Francis Grose's Classical Dictionary of the Vulgar Tongue:
"JERRYCUMMUMBLE. To shake, towzle, or tumble about."


(just for info. Over and out)

[Jerry Organ]

Ray and Denis: Could you guys break me and my wooden ruler in there after-hours?



Operation Jerry-Rig. 

[Jerry Organ]

Hi Jerry and Charles,

Please allow me to submit my 3D work of the Snipper's Nest. The bent pipe was always a problem to model until I discovered, in the POV-Ray software, a procedure named “sphere_sweep” - very similar to your description of SketchUp's “Follow-Me” tool.  I use a 2” diameter for both pipes, basically because that looks right. I'm eager to learn Steven Fagan's results if you would kindly share those.

Due to popular demand, I'll post measurements on the Forum and not through PMs. I'm trying to limit my requests for measurements as Stephen and his staff are busy with day-to-day activities.



The Museum definitely confirmed the 8' 2" (98") in the Crime Lab SN diagram is the width of the masonry opening for the south-wall window pair set (don't have it handy, but the Museum's measurement was like 1/8" more than 98"). That and a brick dimension were my first request for measurements. My second was for the pipes.

The Crime Lab SN diagram measures the east-wall opening at 8' 4" 6" (100" 102"). I think the window wooden frames accommodate this by having a wider center divider. The east-wall was the original front facade of the Depository. Later they moved the front entrance from the east side to the south side. This is one quirky building.

Attached is an animated GIF with and without a box-sitting Virtual Action Figure posed for  ~Z225. All checker board surfaces use 3” squares. The center of the west pipe 42” west of the east wall and 7” from the south wall. Oddly placed shadows are due to use of an overhead lamp to improve visibility. The 3D model is under construction, and always will be. FIW
James

That is fantastic animation. It shows the pipe does not interfere with over-the-box shooting; same my model. The pipe limits only aiming between the boxes and the east window frame. 7" center from the south wall is good (I'll have something like that if I adjust the floorboards).

I believe SketchUp enables animation between "scenes". I don't plan on doing any animation for now. I used the program for two years before I discovered "scenes".
__________

If we can do without the vertical measurements for the coupling and east pipe bends, and where the east pipe is, I'll ask Stephen to go to the seventh floor and, if he has access, measure only the west pipe from the east wall and south wall, and the width of the pipe (working with 2" for now). Maybe some floorboards are visible so he can get their width. Any of that would be representative of the sixth floor.

[James Hackerott]

________

If we can do without the vertical measurements for the coupling and east pipe bends, and where the east pipe is, I'll ask Stephen to go to the seventh floor and, if he has access, measure only the west pipe from the east wall and south wall, and the width of the pipe (working with 2" for now). Maybe some floorboards are visible so he can get their width. Any of that would be representative of the sixth floor.

I'm not sure those pipes are still present on the seventh floor. I took photos and video from the seventh floor SE window pair in 2014 (yes, you can photograph on the seventh but not sixth floor). You may need to copy and paste this link in a browser window. Just a thought, would you request to Stephen he measure the circumfrance of the pipes with a tape measure? 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1h9EeeYbSd4P9lsnIG1NOdoCy3A7wGB3n

I don't recall noting the pipes, but I wasn't looking for them either. This video captured views from the western window and shifted to views from the eastern window. There was a large potted plant positioned in front of the center mullion. The video is very dark inside the building. An enhanced frame below shows the most likely frame that could have captured the pipes, if present. It could be the camera just did not sweep enough to pickup them up. I do doubt those pipes would be accessible to any visitor.


I also can't remember if the seventh floor is carpeted but I think it was. While looking at my videos for evidence of carpet I found video where I recorded the FBI's model of the TSBD. I did not see carpet, but did notice three dark slat like features in the floor. Possibly, the original floor slats? If so, the FBI model was cordoned off, just to the right of the hallway connecting the elevator to the seventh floor and accessible to all. Maybe Stephen could see if those are of any value.


James