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Author Topic: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick  (Read 43753 times)

Offline John Mytton

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2019, 04:03:17 AM »
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I assume that excludes the 3 loud noises on the day of the actual event.

The point of the experiment was to determine if Norman could hear the bolt action and the shells hitting the floor above. The only reasons I can think of for doing an actual firing would be to see if Norman thought the sound was the same and if dust actually falls from the ceiling but after the three gunshots on the 22nd was there any dust left to fall?

JohnM

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #32 on: July 20, 2019, 04:03:17 AM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #33 on: July 20, 2019, 04:20:53 AM »
Too bad Norman could not tell the same story twice. First statement on 11/26, no mention of the sound of the bolt or shells. The big question is did he stick his head out of the window between the shots or didn't he?  Apparently he even heard the bolt and shells when his head was outside of the window. I bet the WC members did not try that. Did the dust fall into his eyes from the ceiling or when he was looking up outside of the building?

FBI 11/26: "He stated that about the time the car in which the President was riding turned on to Elm Street, he heard a shot. He said he thought the shot had been fired from the floor directly above him. He further stated at that time he stuck his head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above him. He stated two additional shots were fired after he had puled his head back in from the window."

Secret Service 12/4:  Now he adds the bolt and shells but not his head outside of the window. "I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle. I also saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me.

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Apparently he even heard the bolt and shells when his head was outside of the window.

How do you come to that conclusion? On the 26th when Norman was obviously inside, Norman says he heard a shot, then stuck his head out and then when he was back inside he heard another two shots, 1 +2 = 3!
The time between the first shots is believed to be about 3 seconds so Norman who was right at the window had plenty of time to have a quick look up between shots 1 and 2.

JohnM



Offline Colin Crow

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2019, 07:50:14 AM »
The point of the experiment was to determine if Norman could hear the bolt action and the shells hitting the floor above. The only reasons I can think of for doing an actual firing would be to see if Norman thought the sound was the same and if dust actually falls from the ceiling but after the three gunshots on the 22nd was there any dust left to fall?

JohnM

Was not referring to the dust....obviously the noise of the gunfire was not there for the test.....so doubtful validity methinks.

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #34 on: July 20, 2019, 07:50:14 AM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #35 on: July 20, 2019, 09:13:09 AM »
How do you come to that conclusion? On the 26th when Norman was obviously inside, Norman says he heard a shot, then stuck his head out and then when he was back inside he heard another two shots, 1 +2 = 3!
The time between the first shots is believed to be about 3 seconds so Norman who was right at the window had plenty of time to have a quick look up between shots 1 and 2.

JohnM

Not until 12 days after the assassination did Norman claim he could hear the rifle cycling and the shells hitting the floor. Except how can he hear anything about the cycling of the rifle while his head is outside of the window between the shots. Yet he claimed he could hear the action worked three times.  The cycle time of the carcano was 2.3 seconds.

In his first statement on 11/26, he claimed the dust was in his eyes as he looked up outside, not from the dust from the ceiling inside that was part of his second 12/4 statement,  He makes additions and adjustments to his statement with each telling. It culminates with a story to the HSCA about LHO making an imaginary pistol with his fingers and making shooting noises (pew, pew) on the day of the assassination. A statement from Norman on the day of the assassination would have value, but the more time that passed the more embellished and contradictory his statements became. Other than him locating the shots from the window above, the rest of his statement should be viewed skeptically.

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2019, 09:43:37 AM »
Norman (and Jarman) only eventually revealed that Williams did not go in the elevator with them to the 5th floor at their WC testimonies.

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #36 on: July 20, 2019, 09:43:37 AM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #37 on: July 21, 2019, 04:12:58 AM »
I assume that excludes the 3 loud noises on the day of the actual event.

Yeah, those 3 loud noises between the 3 (loud-enough) noises of the bolt operation and 3 (loud-enough) noises of the shells hitting the floor.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 06:50:35 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #38 on: July 21, 2019, 04:59:01 AM »
Too bad Norman could not tell the same story twice. First statement on 11/26, no mention of the sound of the bolt or shells. The big question is did he stick his head out of the window between the shots or didn't he?  Apparently he even heard the bolt and shells when his head was outside of the window. I bet the WC members did not try that. Did the dust fall into his eyes from the ceiling or when he was looking up outside of the building?

FBI 11/26: "He stated that about the time the car in which the President was riding turned on to Elm Street, he heard a shot. He said he thought the shot had been fired from the floor directly above him. He further stated at that time he stuck his head from the window and looked upward toward the roof but could see nothing because small particles of dirt were falling from above him. He stated two additional shots were fired after he had puled his head back in from the window."

Secret Service 12/4:  Now he adds the bolt and shells but not his head outside of the window. "I knew that the shots had come from directly above me, and I could hear the expended cartridges fall to the floor. I could also hear the bolt action of the rifle. I also saw some dust fall from the ceiling of the fifth floor and I felt sure that whoever had fired the shots was directly above me.

Via his affidavit, Norman basically said he heard 3 shots, the bolt action, and shells dropping on the floor above. You seem to find the later testimony's more detailed description of those basics sinister in some way. Seems natural that in testimony, the Q&A would draw out more details.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2019, 06:59:52 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2019, 11:59:39 AM »
Yeah, those 3 loud noises between the 3 (loud-enough) noises of the bolt operation and 3 (loud-enough) noises of the shells hitting the floor.

Was I too subtle or did you choose to ignore?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15387085

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Re: How to wipe down your weapon of choice real quick
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2019, 11:59:39 AM »