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Author Topic: Can the divide / debate amount to each side elevating favorite coincidences?  (Read 3206 times)

Offline Tom Scully

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Former prosecutors appearing on cable news often share that they tend not to accept coincidence is
not instead a bonafide lead or incriminating evidence. Criminal investigators share this resistance to
chalking anything up to coincidence. They want to quickly and reliably determine if a curious detail is
merely irrelevant distraction or even part of a clever ruse conducted by the perpetrators.

Can you make a convincing argument to students of the official federal Assassination investigations
that the details are not fraught with coincidences brimming with two or more persons involved,
each coincidence a dart board to toss circumstantial evidence at, hoping it will stick?

How did the coincidences that made the cut, the ones weight was added to by the authors of the two reports,
serve the truth as well as they were deemed to fit the narrative?

Did LNs accept and tout the government line, or was the divide originally built on the political affiliations and philosophies
of LNs vs those of CTs? IOW, were the likes of pioneer CTs Shirley Martin and Penn Jones Jr. rooted in their communist sympathies or by something else....possibly a 100 different reasons if you asked individual CTs.

And, what'll you have, as a standard? Guilt beyond any reasonable doubt if the accused is applying for a job elevation
determined by a U.S. Senate interview and hearings/debate, or KISS.... Lock her up?

Is it important to confine the standard of proof to the norm in cases in which a branch of the U.S. Treasury
unilatterally moves the corpse of a murder victim out of legal jurisdiction and the accused is murdered in police
custody on live TV, two days after his arrest?

Please present a favorite coincidence transformed into supporting evidence by either Assassination investigation and why
it is weightier than the Hale and Connally familys' curious history and wonders.

IB Hale and Davy O'Brien were team mate college football stand outs hired by the FBI in a national recruiting program
of college football players. Hoover was said to regard Hale and O'Brien as personal favorites.

In 1959, Hale's son Bobby secretly eloped with John Connally's daughter Kathleen. The couple moved to Florida and
mere weeks later, Kathleen died from 20 ga. shotgun wounds to her head, her husband Bobby Hale was present at
the time and he testified before a Florida coroner's inquest.

Bobby and his twin brother later said they attented high school with Lee Harvey Oswald when he was briefly enrolled.

in 1962, an FBI team monitoring the Los Angeles residence of Judith Exner due to the lease payments being made by
Johnny Rosselli, reported that two men matching the descriptions of Bobby Hale and his twin were observed forcing
entry and entering the Exner residence, leaving after a brief time and seemingly empty handed, leaving the scene
in a Corvette with Texas registration details of their father, IB Hale, an industrial security officer for General Dynamics
after retiring from the FBI.

CE 1389 : https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1389.pdf
The Hale twins's mother Virginia was recently separated from IB Hale when her name appeared in a WC exhibit, an
FBI 302 detailing her call to Lee Harvey Oswald as a follow up to his recent visit to her workplace, the State of Texas
employment office. Virginia Hale instructed Oswald to report to Leslie Welding, where he was promptly hired.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2018, 02:23:51 AM by Tom Scully »

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Offline Joe Elliott

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What alternative is there other than coincidence?

What do you think is the true story?

That Oswald heard that the wife of an acquittance in high school had been shot. And that Oswald investigated and learned that it wasn?t the husband but her father who was the true murderer. And so, on November 22, 1963 tried to get revenge for his old friend but accidentally killed the President?

What is your theory?

Her husband?s father was in the FBI. But he might have been with the CIA. Or with the Dallas police. Or with the New Orleans police. Or with the Mafia. Or with anti-Castro activists. Or any number of suspicious organizations.
Or maybe his brother. Or his uncle. Or some other close relative.
It doesn?t sound like a tremendous coincidence. Someone closely related to someone significant. Maybe someone in the limousine. Or maybe with the Secret Service. Or with the escorting policemen. Someone who could have been the real target on November 22. That person is murdered in 1959.
And the likely murderer had a father in the FBI, as do thousands of others. But in addition to being connected to a likely murder in 1959, also has a strong connection to other major crimes. None of which have anything to do with the Kennedy assassination.

Offline Tom Scully

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.....
What is your theory?
.....

How do you operate in your pro WC Report world if you don't consistently give the benefit of the doubt to FBI
executives like Belmont and the others whose initials appear at the bottom of the summer, 1962 memo addressed
to him concerning the Hale problem? Why would you routinely give these incompetent and possibly corrupt FBI
executives the benefit of the doubt, despite their well supported history of troubling omission to the WC and their
self-dealing...protecting IB Hale & family & planting Ford as an undercover informer?

Do you suppose FBI executive Belmont or his fellows who initialed the document
simply forgot about this memo received a year before the Assassination?
Is it your opinion the WC inquiry could be properly conducted with this unshared by the FBI with the WC?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=128396#relPageId=3&tab=page


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=128395&relPageId=3


Might this not have been a reasonable opportunity for a more ethical FBI to share with the WC, details displayed above?
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10702&relPageId=20

My POV, influenced by the troubling "missteps" of the SS, DPD, FBI, and the fact that the WC conducted a
politically instigated and motivated/guided/confined investigation instead of a criminal investigation, is that
the opportunity to reliably report after conducting a proper criminal investigation not hamstrung by politically
motivated time constraints and overseen by someone without conflict of interest of the SCOTUS chief or secretly
reporting WC executive session details to the FBI (Rep. Gerald Ford), is that both the WC and the HSCA were
deliberately incomplete investigations influence by people of disqualifying conflicts of interest.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96325&relPageId=8


1. SS moved body of murder victim and crime scene segement (the limo) out of legal jurisdiction to a remote
jurisdiction where an out of legal jurisdiction autopsy was conducted, overseen by persons of interest to investigators
of the underlying crime of a Dallas gunshot murder.
2. DPD "lost" the accused, literally in the arms of that agency and less than 48 hours into their custody.
3. FBI malfeasance was more subtle..... (see IB Hale document images, above)

Joe, you are reaching conclusions without fully allowing that the government did not allow the WC or
HSCA to play with a full deck!
Quote
https://www.history-matters.com/essays/frameup/WhatJaneRomanSaid/WhatJaneRomanSaid_6.htm
......
First, it was Joannides?s job to make sure that his actions could not be traced to the U.S. government. He was, judging from his job evaluations in 1963, very good at his job.

Second, Joannides was well-known for his attention to paperwork. Very little of that paperwork has ever come to light. Running a group like the Cuban Student Directorate required monthly reports to CIA headquarters. The CIA has declassified these reports for the years 1960 to 1966.  Only in the 17 months that Joannides worked with the group, December 1962 to April 1964, are the monthly reports missing from CIA archives.

Third, and most importantly, CIA officials called Joannides was called out of retirement in 1978 to serve as the agency?s liaison to the House Select Committee on Assassinations.
Fifteen years after the fact, he could have shared what he knew about Oswald?s Cuban activities with investigators. He did not. G. Robert Blakey, a former federal prosecutor who served as the HSCA?s general counsel and worked closely with Joannides says the CIA man never let on that the anti-Castro Cubans who tangled with Oswald had been his assets. Why refrain from stating such a pertinent fact if not to protect a sensitive operation? Blakey told me that if he had known Joannides? role in 1963, he would have required him to testify under oath.

?He was a material witness to events related to the assassination,? Blakey says.

While the details of Joannides?s motivations remain concealed, the results of his actions in 1963 are well documented. ....
« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 09:48:41 PM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum


Offline Mark A. Oblazney

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How do you operate in your pro WC Report world if you don't consistently give the benefit of the doubt to FBI
executives like Belmont and the others whose initials appear at the bottom of the summer, 1962 memo addressed
to him concerning the Hale problem? Why would you routinely give these incompetent and possibly corrupt FBI
executives the benefit of the doubt, despite their well supported history of troubling omission to the WC and their
self-dealing...protecting IB Hale & family & planting Ford as an undercover informer?

Do you suppose FBI executive Belmont or his fellows who initialed the document
simply forgot about this memo received a year before the Assassination?
Is it your opinion the WC inquiry could be properly conducted with this unshared by the FBI with the WC?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=128396#relPageId=3&tab=page


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=128395&relPageId=3


Might this not have been a reasonable opportunity for a more ethical FBI to share with the WC, details displayed above?
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10702&relPageId=20

My POV, influenced by the troubling "missteps" of the SS, DPD, FBI, and the fact that the WC conducted a
politically instigated and motivated/guided/confined investigation instead of a criminal investigation, is that
the opportunity to reliably report after conducting a proper criminal investigation not hamstrung by politically
motivated time constraints and overseen by someone without conflict of interest of the SCOTUS chief or secretly
reporting WC executive session details to the FBI (Rep. Gerald Ford), is that both the WC and the HSCA were
deliberately incomplete investigations influence by people of disqualifying conflicts of interest.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96325&relPageId=8


1. SS moved body of murder victim and crime scene segement (the limo) out of legal jurisdiction to a remote
jurisdiction where an out of legal jurisdiction autopsy was conducted, overseen by persons of interest to investigators
of the underlying crime of a Dallas gunshot murder.
2. DPD "lost" the accused, literally in the arms of that agency and less than 48 hours into their custody.
3. FBI malfeasance was more subtle..... (see IB Hale document images, above)

Joe, you are reaching conclusions without fully allowing that the government did not allow the WC or
HSCA to play with a full deck!
Joe-uh-NEED-eez.  He didn't stack the deck, he was just a good card player.  Did his job, yes?  Even got a medal for all his good deeds.

Again, this is all very fascinating reading, Tom.  Thanks.

Offline Tom Scully

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Joe-uh-NEED-eez.  He didn't stack the deck, he was just a good card player.  Did his job, yes?  Even got a medal for all his good deeds.

Again, this is all very fascinating reading, Tom.  Thanks.

It must have come to me in a dream because I cannot recall any treatise, or even banter, on the following quirk of fate.:
Jim Garrison's investigation resulting in the prosecution of Clay Shaw coincidentally has the same initials as the alleged, lone JFK assassin.

Limited Hang Out
« Last Edit: July 13, 2019, 04:12:34 PM by Tom Scully »

JFK Assassination Forum