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Author Topic: First shot reactions  (Read 51643 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #128 on: August 09, 2019, 11:24:11 PM »
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    Giving serious consideration to "ear" witnesses is foolish. Motorcycle cycles backfiring from numerous angles, sound echoing off buildings, and then there is the constant Echo Chamber of WC supporters before, during, and after the release of the WC Report as to 3 shots being fired = "ear" witness accounts as being close to worthless.  This is also why the WC Attorney's almost Never inquire as to the hearing ability of the "ear" witness in front of them. Many, many, many, of the males giving "Ear" witness testimony were WW 2 Vets and those guys had to of had hearing disabilities to some degree.

Inattentional Deafness: Visual Load Leads to Time-Specific Suppression of Auditory Evoked Responses
https://www.jneurosci.org/content/35/49/16046

Why focusing on a visual task will make us deaf to our surroundings: Concentrating attention on a visual task can render you momentarily 'deaf' to sounds at normal levels
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/12/151208184335.htm
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 11:44:24 PM by Bill Chapman »

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #128 on: August 09, 2019, 11:24:11 PM »


Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #129 on: August 10, 2019, 12:14:32 AM »
     Very detailed description of what we are seeing. But by Golly somehow You Forgot to mention that even though Connally had his Radius Bone Busted along with the Tendon Severed that controls his thumb, he Still somehow managed to maintain his Grip and Hold Onto that stetson hat of his. Strange how You Forgot to include this in your narrative.

BFD

I'd expect someone to tighten up rather than relax after taking a bullet. He clutched/clenched the f'n Stetson, Royell.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 04:43:47 AM by Bill Chapman »

Offline John Mytton

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #130 on: August 10, 2019, 12:36:18 AM »
     Very detailed description of what we are seeing. But by Golly somehow You Forgot to mention that even though Connally had his Radius Bone Busted along with the Tendon Severed that controls his thumb, he Still somehow managed to maintain his Grip and Hold Onto that stetson hat of his. Strange how You Forgot to include this in your narrative.

Repeating what you read/see on the internet isn't evidence and as Jerry points out, you don't have a clue.
What happened Royell, you were so much better than this?

But anyway Connally's wrist wound can tell us a lot. Firstly the amount of lead in the wrist is tiny and as Lattimer shows us, the approx equivalent amount of missing lead from CE399 is enough to make many tiny lead fragments.



And next we see the WC results of a full on bullet strike on a human wrist and we see massive damage whereas Connally's light fracture indicates a bullet that has been dramatically slowed.



JohnM

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #130 on: August 10, 2019, 12:36:18 AM »


Online Royell Storing

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #131 on: August 10, 2019, 01:59:57 AM »
Please cite. What book or website did you get this gem from?

Connally's radial nerve was damaged (it supplies sensation to the back of the hand). Undamaged was the median nerve which allows the thumb and fingers to oppose each other, and the forearm to rise up. The sensation of the bullet through the wrist could have stimulated the median nerve and caused the forearm to spring up, like they've been showing you.

     So you want a book or website yet You provide None yourself? Pot meet kettle. Plus, now you are playing the Should/Woulda game with relation to a Possible? forearm "spring up". More Pot meet Kettle. And then, what about the metal fragments remaining in the thigh area? Another convenient Omission that serves your purpose.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2019, 02:05:23 AM by Royell Storing »

Online Royell Storing

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #132 on: August 10, 2019, 03:31:25 AM »
LOL! You're some "researcher". If you want the very common and readily-available Sam Holland quotes, just search for Sam Holland and tack on a few words from the quote.

You think I'm going to provide a citation for what the median nerve does?

Be a whole lot quicker for you to provide the sole source in the world for Connally's "Tendon Severed that controls his thumb".

     Non Responsive. Including your Omitting the bullet fragments in the thigh of Connally. Even Humes was on-the-record as Not buying into the SBT. Of course, he was well aware of the fragments in the thigh.

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #132 on: August 10, 2019, 03:31:25 AM »


Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #133 on: August 13, 2019, 10:22:28 PM »


Shouldn't the upright lines on the walls by the reflecting pool be more true to vertical?
Yes. You are right.  I have corrected the model here:



Quote
And doesn't the Stemmons sign lean the opposite way and should it be bigger? Maybe it doesn't matter if only camera-left post-top is relevant to line-of-sight.
I don't have the exact dimensions of the Stemmons sign. I have made the Stemmons sign 5 ft wide.


Quote
Shouldn't there be some space (relative to Zapruder's view) between Kennedy and Connally? In your model they overlap, whether in the near-view or far-view. I model Z193 because it's clearer than other frames in the mid-Z190s and there were no major changes in position during that time. In my model: right-to-left: about 13 degrees; slope: about 22 degrees.
My JFK model is a bit too large and inflexible.  I could use a better JFK model.  The separation depends on the angle and it is difficult to compare the poor resolution shot from a distance, which approximates Zapruder's viewpoint.

Offline Andrew Mason

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #134 on: August 15, 2019, 08:53:08 PM »
Hurchel Jacks, driver of the VP car carrying Vice President Lyndon Johnson and Lady Bird Johnson gave his position at the time of the first shot as follows:

"My car had just straightened up from making the left turn . I was looking directly at the President's car at that time . At that time I heard a shot ring out which appeared to come from the right rear of the Vice President's car." (18 H 801 - the statement is part of CE1024).

We cannot see any of the VP car after z180 and it is hardly discernible after z177.  But Zapruder frames z1 to z64 show a motorcycle making the same turn.  Assuming that the motorcycle is moving at approximately the same speed as the motorcade, the motorcycle turn should give us a reasonable idea of the number of frames required for a vehicle to make the turn. 

We start with the first frame z1 which compares to the VP car position at z133:


The position of the motorcycle 23 frames later at z23 is similar to the position of the VP car at z163 which is 30 frames after z133:


The position of the motorcycle 13 frames later at z36 is similar to the position of the VP car at z172 which is only 9 frames after z163:


I would suggest that the position of the motorcycle at z59 is the earliest frame in which one could conclude that the motorcycle had completed the turn. 


There are different ways to estimate the frame at which the VP car was in the same position as the motorcycle at frame z59.  58 frames after z133 is z191.  z59 is 23 frames after z36 so 23 frames after z172 is z195. But since z172 is 39 frames after z133 and z36 is 35 frames after z1, the VP car may have been moving a bit slower than the motorcycle was.  That would mean that z59 should be equivalent to 58 x 39/36 = 63 frames after z133 or z196.   

On the other hand, moving between positions seen in z23 and z36 for the motorcycle took only 9 frames for the VP car - so maybe after z163 the VP car was moving faster than the motorcycle after z36. Projecting that faster speed through to the VP car equivalent position to z59 would be to add (9/13) x (59-36) = 16 frames to z172 which puts the VP car in the same position at z188 (as the motorcycle at z59).  So the estimated range is anywhere from z188 to z196 as the possible range for the VP car completing the turn. And Jacks said it was just after that, not before.

All the occupants of the VP gave statements that are fully consistent with Jacks' statement that the car had completed the turn and was moving along Elm at the time of the first shot.  None of that fits with an early first shot miss, even without SA Youngblood's recollection after the first shot: " I noticed that the movements in the Presidential car were very abnormal and, at practically the same time, the movements in the Presidential follow-up car were abnormal".
« Last Edit: August 15, 2019, 08:57:44 PM by Andrew Mason »

Offline Peter Kleinschmidt

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #135 on: August 16, 2019, 04:00:17 AM »
That Hughes film you show at an angle within the animated picture of the motorcade turning onto Elm. My question is about the motorcade in the Hughes film, specifically when you see the VP car before it starts to turn onto Elm, will say before it enters the intersection, maybe a car length away from entering the intersection-- is the driver's door or the left backseat door open? And if so isn't that before the driver says he the loud sound

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Re: First shot reactions
« Reply #135 on: August 16, 2019, 04:00:17 AM »