Larry Crafard- 3 days and 200 pages of testimony

[Tom Scully]

Actually, it was my thread on Larry Crafard...then this entire page was consumed by your [apparent] rebuttal of the Yates story.
Which is OK. I am always open to scrutiny-examination and stuff. One thing is that concerning the Yates report...of course...if true.. the FBI could have absolutely none of it. So in light of everything else--it had to be not true.
Polygraphs   Ever taken one? I have and they yield some surprising results sometimes.
Another thing is why would Mr Yates have lied? He suffered a possible inherited mental condition the FBI wanted all to think.
His aunt and uncle were considered a couple of wackos so he must be too? From what I understand, Mr Yates and his family underwent an incredible ordeal. Did Mr Yates report the incident because he was mental or did the entire episode drive him mental?

Jerry, did anyone other, aside from you or I, post links to reference materials about Crafard, in this thread?

Jerry, have you ever taken a polygraph and the operator could establish no baseline because you registered no emotion? If not, I do not see your point. If you cannot dismiss Yates because you believe the FBI, his co-worker, Jones, his employer, the Meat Market customer of his employer, Yate's uncle, at least one cousin, doctors at Parkland, and at mental institutions were ALL(even if independently) "doing things" to marginalize the sensational claims of Ralph Yates by "reducing Yates" to a blithering idiot, I am not all that frustrated about your indifference to major things I have proven.

You seem impressed, somehow, with Yates's claims. I have proven Priscilla testified to HSCA that her father's death in 1969 was a "concealed suicide," and independent of her testimony, but the reason I noticed it, is because the last person to see Stuart Johnson alive and later reported him missing, James A Thomas, Jr., of Locust Valley, was a cousin of Allen Dulles.
http://archive.is/esTuB

I have proven the man sitting between Marina and Priscilla in December, 1963, was married to the aunt of this man.:

https://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/author-85-knew-jfk-killer-oswald-article-1.1525293
‘Marina and Lee’ author, 85, one of few that knew both President Kennedy, Lee Harvey Oswald
.....
https://www.nydailynews.com/resizer/UuJA-4OVzv28nAJ90cPS2F04I-Q=/800x632/top/arc-anglerfish-arc2-prod-tronc.s3.amazonaws.com/public/AO5DI73QWP3ZLDK6IREGY55SIM.jpg

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Clifford
Chair of the President's Intelligence Advisory Board
In office April 23, 1963 – February 29, 1968

I have also proven that the uncle of this same "Chair" employed James Phelan as a journalist from 1932 to 1947 at the Alton Evening Telegraph.

But let us all dwell instead on Ralph Yates, on "Rapidly wiping a weapon", and on Mrs. Robert A Reid! What say you, Jerry?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57760&search=yates#relPageId=6&tab=page

https://ratical.org/ratville/JFK/Unspeakable/TwoLHOs.html
...Other relatives and friends dismissed Ralph’s account of the Oswald-like hitchhiker with the curtain rods package as pure fantasy.

His uncle, J. O. Smith, who went with him on his first trip to the FBI office, said of his nephew’s story, “I really thought that was all just imagination.”[784]

His cousin, Ken Smith, remembers Ralph before Kennedy’s death as nothing more than “a chain-smoker who watched football games.”[785] Once Ralph had what he thought was his Oswald experience, Ken said, he became a man obsessed:

“He wouldn’t let it go. He believed it to be true. This consumed Ralph. His thinking didn’t go beyond that afterwards. This just totally destroyed his life.

“Ralph blamed himself for Kennedy’s assassination. He said, ‘I was the reason the President got killed.’

“If he had shut up, his life wouldn’t have been so bad. Everybody thought he was crazy. So he became crazy.”[786]

Even Ralph’s co-worker and corroborating witness, Dempsey Jones, who confirmed to the FBI that Yates told him at least one day before the assassination about the hitchhiker’s talk on shooting the president, was skeptical. As the FBI liked to point out, he added a disclaimer: “[Jones] said Yates is a big talker who always talks about a lot of foolishness.”[787]
...

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95617&relPageId=21&search=dempsey_jones%20and%20ralph

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95617&search=dempsey_jones+and+ralph#relPageId=23&tab=page

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57760&relPageId=145&search=dempsey_and%20yates


On January 3, 1964, Yates made a claim that was soon refuted by two employees of the business Yates claimed he picked up
a "small check" from, allegedly on behalf of his employer.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96522&search=yates_and+market#relPageId=21&tab=page
Statement of employee of Charlies Meat Market:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96522&search=yates_and+market#relPageId=22&tab=page
Statement of employee of Charlies Meat Market:
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=96522&search=yates_and+market#relPageId=23&tab=page

[Jerry Freeman]

Jerry, have you ever taken a polygraph and the operator could establish no baseline because you registered no emotion?

Polygraph analysis depends very much on the skill of the examiner.   

[Jerry Freeman]

Mr Crafard's short tour of milatary duty was not fully explained in his testimony....

Mr. HUBERT. Where did you get basic training?
Mr. CRAFARD. Fort Ord.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you stay there?
Mr. CRAFARD. I was in Fort Ord for 2 months and then I went to Presidio, San Francisco, where I was stationed at an air defense school for a period of 2 months and then I was assigned to D Battery, 2d Missile Battalion, San Francisco Defense Organization.
From there I went to Germany in April of 1959. I was transferred to Germany to Deisley Kersne, and I was stationed with the D Battery, 2d Missile Battalion there. I stayed there until November of 1959 then I was transferred back to the United States where I was discharged November 10, 1959.
Mr. HUBERT. How long did you serve altogether?
Mr. CRAFARD. Thirteen months.
Mr. HUBERT. Is that the usual tour?
Mr. CRAFARD. No, sir. The usual tour is 3 to 4 years.
Mr. HUBERT. Well now, what caused you to get out sooner?
Mr. CRAFARD. As far as I understand it is the next thing to a medical discharge.
Mr. HUBERT. What was it based upon, do you know?
Mr. CRAFARD. General, under honorable conditions.
Mr. HUBERT. You have a discharge reading general, under honorable conditions and you are now taking from your pocket a document which is a photostatic copy, I take it?
Mr. CRAFARD. Yes; DD214.

Crafard did not state the specific reason for his release and counsel did not press him on it [Don't ask Don't tell?] Because of that, I suspect it could have been due to sexual conduct.

Originally, individuals were not removed from service because of their sexual orientation; it was the sexual act of sodomy (anal and oral sex between two men) that was the crime and justification for dismissal from military service... During the 1940s, the military used psychiatry's determination of homosexuality as a mental illness to justify discharging gay soldiers; in the 1950s, homosexuals were determined to be particularly vulnerable to blackmail and thus a threat to national security.. Although men were being discharged for homosexual behavior during these early years, there was no clear guidance on the matter and thus commanders were imposing the discharges at their own discretion.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00918360903054137
Jack Ruby had a reputation around town of being gay/bi....had a liaison with George Senator [his room mate] 
Was the Ruby/Crafard relationship all it was cracked up to be and again...Why did Crafard skip town the day after the assassination?

[Michael Clark]

.Why did Crafard skip town the day after the assassination?

It’s been a hunch of mine that he left town with Igor Vaganov. Vaganov was a telecommunications technician. It has also been a hunch of mine that Ruby used these guys to collect information, and build telecom channels out of the Carousel. This is highly speculative stuff, to be sure.

[Tom Scully]

Thank you!

Hey Michael, I expect you have the same disdain for inaccuracy as I do. It warmed my heart to read your recently posted advice to an Ed Forum member to pursue original sources to learn more, instead of relying on the details Kennedy Assassination book authors elect to publish. (and then to stubbornly stand by, likely out of profit and perceived reputation preservation, considerations.)

I know from reading a recent Ed Forum post by you that you will understand why this will be perceived as "rain" on the recently announced, "The Counter Revolution Has Begun," parade. No malice intended, merely posted in service to the truth owed to the readers of this Yahoo News announcement.

Destiny Betrayed: JFK, Cuba, and the Garrison Case
https://books.google.com....
James DiEugenio - 2012
Found inside
JFK, Cuba, and the Garrison Case James DiEugenio ... William Martin had learned from Clay Shaw's friend David Baldwin, that some of the money for Sheridan's show was being funneled through the large law firm of Monroe and Lemann in ...

AGC Television Picks up Worldwide on Oliver Stone’s ‘JFK: Destiny Betrayed’
Variety   
John Hopewell
VarietyOctober 13, 2019

First comment, below the above article

I like Jim DiEugenio personally, and I think he usually does good work, but in this instance, Jim is actually protecting Nicholas B. Lemann, author of the 1992 article published in GQ Magazine attacking, Garrison and co-screenplay writers of "JFK the Movie, Oliver Stone and Zachary Sklar. Sklar also served as editor of Garrison's autobiography. Garrison failed to reveal to Sklar or to author Joan Mellen a detail Clay Shaw had learned in March, 1967, from former CIA agent and Shaw Trademart employee, David G. Baldwin, III, that Garrison's wife, "Liz" Ziegler Garrison, was first cousin of Baldwin and his brother, Edward, and godchild of David. David G. Baldwin's wife was step-sister of WDSU outside counsel Garrison informed the FCC in a June, 1967, letter, was distributing Central Intelligence Agency funds to attorneys representing subjects of interest in Garrison's investigation. This WDSU counsel, Stephen B. Lemann, and his brother Thomas, were on file with the WDSU, FCC license application as each owning ten perecent or more of Royal Street, the holding company owning WDSU. Thomas B. Lemann happens to be the father of Nicholas B. Lemann.
Unfortunately, there are major issues with author DiEugenio's version of Jim Garrison, his investigation of the Kennedy Assassination, and the indictmrnt and prosecution of Clay Shaw that have been presented to Jim DiEugenio and he has failed to address.: https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?17025-The-Crimes-of-Quillette&p=126009#post126009

https://jfkfacts.org/provocative-prolific-joan-mellen/#comment-869223
Tom S.  April 12, 2016 at 1:25 pm

Although I am credited as a contributor to Ms. Mellen’s book, “Our Man in Haiti,” my entire body of research results influence me to share an opinion that the description of Joan Mellen in this article is overdone….
She first met Jim Garrison just months after the Clay Shaw trial in 1969 and described interviewing more than 1200 people before publishing her book on Jim Garrison, “Farewell to Justice.”
More than 30 years after she first met Jim Garrison and in addition to much other research and interviewing 1200 people, this was the crux and the emphasis of Joan Mellen’s presentation on the best supported CIA influences/interference on Garrison’s investigation and his prosecution of Clay Shaw.
https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Unredacted_-_Episode_1_-_Transcript.html
Unredacted Episode 1: Transcript of Interview with Joan Mellen
Joan Mellen is the author of A Farewell to Justice: Jim Garrison, JFK’s Assassination, and the Case That Should Have Changed History. This interview was conducted on 22 Feb 2006. Tyler Weaver provided the introduction, and the interview was conducted by Rex Bradford.
…….
REX: I – I think –
JOAN: – when Baldwin was present, he was a CIA asset, his brother worked for the International Trade Mart and Clay Shaw, David Baldwin, and these, these are CIA people….

[Jerry Freeman]

It’s been a hunch of mine that he left town with Igor Vaganov. Vaganov was a telecommunications technician. It has also been a hunch of mine that Ruby used these guys to collect information, and build telecom channels out of the Carousel. This is highly speculative stuff, to be sure.

OK I'll bite. Where does Crafard play into it?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10415#relPageId=11&tab=page

[Michael Clark]

OK I'll bite. Where does Crafard play into it?
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10415#relPageId=11&tab=page

Well, It’s so speculative that I should not have shared it. I tried to come up with a good response but I can’t really cover the ground that led had me thinking that 2 years ago. I have forgotten what led me to that hunch. I did try to share my thoughts on Crafard at the ED forum on this thread... http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/23787-phone-lines-crafard-and-senator-at-the-carousel/.
I did not tie Vaganov into it very much, if at all, at that time. Thanks for the recent post on Vaganov.