Six Seconds in Dallas-- Old book, a must read

[Nicholas Turner]

    If You are going to claim it took the hauling arse JFK Limo 2 Minutes to reach the overpass that stretched across the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp, are You also then claiming the JFK Limo STOPPED?

He said he smelt gunpowder a couple of minutes later after hearing the shots (didn't specify 2 as I remembered). I didn't claim JFK's limo took two minutes to reach where he was. That's your misunderstanding.

[Michael Carney]

I had made up this list of witnesses awhile back so seeing as we are discussing smelling gunsmoke
Witnesses to smelling gunpowder at street level:
•   Ralph Yarborough was in the car two cars behind the Presidents car and said he smelled gunpowder. He is a war veteran with more than 50 years experience with fire arms. WC Vol VII, pg 439
•   Earl Brown, Dallas Police Patrolman – “Heard shot’s and then smelled gunpowder” WC Vol VI, pg 233
•   Elizabeth Cabell, wife of Dallas mayor, said “acutely aware of the smell of gunpowder”  WC Vol VII, pg 486
•   Billy J. Martin, patrolman - “You could smell the gunpowder… you knew he wasn’t far away. When you’re that close, you can smell the powder burning. Why you—you’ve got to be pretty close to them… you could smell the gunpowder… right there in the street.”
•   Congressman Ray Roberts, seated next to her, had mentioned it also. Same source as Martin
•   Tom C. Dillard, two cars behind the Cabell car, he “. . . very definitely smelled gunpowder when the cars moved up to the corner [of Elm and Houston Streets] Same source as Martin
•   Virgie Rackley stood in front of the depository building close to the street. “She recalled that after the second shot, she smelled gun smoke…” same source as Martin
•   One newspaper summed it up: “. . . seconds later the cavalcade was gone. The area still reeked with the smell of gunpowder.” Same source as Martin

Witnesses to Hickey holding and possibly firing a “rifle”:
•   Dallas Mayor, Earl Cabel. see’s one Secret Service agent standup with a sub-machine gun.
•   Senator Yarbrough also saw a rifle.
•   Agent Winston rides in the front of JFK in the lead car. He noticed Agent Hickey standing up in the follow up car, “I first thought that he had fired it”.
•   Sam Holland, a witness, is standing on top of the underpass as the motorcade is going under him. “After the first shot, the Secret Service agent raised up with a machine gun and dropped back down into the seat. WC Vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 480
•   Roy Kellerman testified there was an AR15 in the motorcade.
•   Hugh Betner saw one Secret Service agent pull out a gun, he was standing watching the motorcade. vol XXIV, ex 2003, pg 200
•   A police officer on the over pass as the motorcade passing under saw an agent swinging around the gun.
•   Margaret Chisolm WC vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 472 saw agents stand up and sit back down.
•   Jean Hill – Saw JFK grab his chest and fall forward and she thinks she saw men in plain clothes shooting back. WC Vol XXIV, Ex 2003, pg 212
•   Ralph Yarborough saw a SS Agent pull out a rifle. WC Vol VII, pg 439

[Jerry Organ]

    Once again, the visual aid that is provided defeats the point of the poster. The visual aid above in No Way displays a shot "HITTING the president in the head, JUST ABOVE the Right Ear..........." The visual aid displays a bullet striking the BACK of the Head and then traveling across the TOP Of the Head.

Sure. The bullet in the drawing enters and exits along the midline of the top of the skull.



Even though the drawing and Z312 have the same head orientation, only in the Z-frame can it be said the bullet track does damage along the right side, producing a large exit wound above the right ear. The so-called "Devil's Ear".

[Walt Cakebread]

I had made up this list of witnesses awhile back so seeing as we are discussing smelling gunsmoke
Witnesses to smelling gunpowder at street level:
•   Ralph Yarborough was in the car two cars behind the Presidents car and said he smelled gunpowder. He is a war veteran with more than 50 years experience with fire arms. WC Vol VII, pg 439
•   Earl Brown, Dallas Police Patrolman – “Heard shot’s and then smelled gunpowder” WC Vol VI, pg 233
•   Elizabeth Cabell, wife of Dallas mayor, said “acutely aware of the smell of gunpowder”  WC Vol VII, pg 486
•   Billy J. Martin, patrolman - “You could smell the gunpowder… you knew he wasn’t far away. When you’re that close, you can smell the powder burning. Why you—you’ve got to be pretty close to them… you could smell the gunpowder… right there in the street.”
•   Congressman Ray Roberts, seated next to her, had mentioned it also. Same source as Martin
•   Tom C. Dillard, two cars behind the Cabell car, he “. . . very definitely smelled gunpowder when the cars moved up to the corner [of Elm and Houston Streets] Same source as Martin
•   Virgie Rackley stood in front of the depository building close to the street. “She recalled that after the second shot, she smelled gun smoke…” same source as Martin
•   One newspaper summed it up: “. . . seconds later the cavalcade was gone. The area still reeked with the smell of gunpowder.” Same source as Martin

Witnesses to Hickey holding and possibly firing a “rifle”:
•   Dallas Mayor, Earl Cabel. see’s one Secret Service agent standup with a sub-machine gun.
•   Senator Yarbrough also saw a rifle.
•   Agent Winston rides in the front of JFK in the lead car. He noticed Agent Hickey standing up in the follow up car, “I first thought that he had fired it”.
•   Sam Holland, a witness, is standing on top of the underpass as the motorcade is going under him. “After the first shot, the Secret Service agent raised up with a machine gun and dropped back down into the seat. WC Vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 480
•   Roy Kellerman testified there was an AR15 in the motorcade.
•   Hugh Betner saw one Secret Service agent pull out a gun, he was standing watching the motorcade. vol XXIV, ex 2003, pg 200
•   A police officer on the over pass as the motorcade passing under saw an agent swinging around the gun.
•   Margaret Chisolm WC vol XIX, ex 5323, pg 472 saw agents stand up and sit back down.
•   Jean Hill – Saw JFK grab his chest and fall forward and she thinks she saw men in plain clothes shooting back. WC Vol XXIV, Ex 2003, pg 212
•   Ralph Yarborough saw a SS Agent pull out a rifle. WC Vol VII, pg 439

If the shots had been fired from six stories above the street there would not have been any odor of gun smoke at the street level ...   If you think a Secret Service man shot JFK then who fire the other two shots?

[Michael Carney]

I recall reading that two men were seen up on the 6th floor of the TSBD and they had olive skin. I have only read that one time in all of the books I have read on the subject. Also could have been from the Dal Tex Building, another shooter that is. No, people at street level would not smell the gunpowder from that high.

[Marjan Rynkiewicz]

    If You are going to claim it took the hauling arse JFK Limo 2 Minutes to reach the overpass that stretched across the Stemmons Fwy On-Ramp, are You also then claiming the JFK Limo STOPPED?

Yes, Officer Brown said that the motorcade stopped for at least 30 sec on the onramp.
Confirmed by Hoffman.
So, the motorcade would have taken say 60sec to reach Officer Brown on the railway overpass.