Did Hickey Fire the Fatal Shot - Originally Posted by Tom Dooley

[Michael Carney]

If you were looking a Hickey when the fatal shot was fired then you would not see JFK’s brains flying out of his head. If you were watching JFK and see the pink flash you would not see Hickey holding the gun. If you were looking at the gun you would not see a muzzle blast because of the AR15’s flash suppressor.  It would be difficult for anyone to be at that correct angle looking at JFK and Hickey at the same time. If you were right beside the limos you would be looking at one or the other, you can’t see both at the same time unless you are a fair distance away. Look at the Zapruder film, it didn’t show both.
You doubt my theory I am representing here but you don’t come up with your own solutions. Tell me how you have a dozen witnesses saying a SS Agent was holding a gun, JFK gets shot in the head from the rear, and a dozen people smell gunpowder, not car fumes? Tell me how that happens. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it’s a duck.

[Michael Carney]

 A jacketed bullet is not designed to disintegrate upon impact. The purpose of the jacket is to keep it together and hopefully go though more than one soldier in combat. I have personally fired jacketed bullets at 2x6 piece of wood and it went straight through and went through another 2x6 a short distance beyond sideways, you could see the profile of the bullet in the second 2x6 and again straight through. So the jacketed bullet does not disintegrate, at best it will break up into sizable pieces and they would have found them during the autopsy. What they found were very small particles representative of an AR15 round, not a 6.5mm carcano round. You also saw in the “smoking gun” video that the secret service directed a “technician” to tape fragment’s of a jacketed bullet to the x-rays trying to make it look like JFK was shot with a jacketed bullet.
The frangible round that came out of the AR15 is designed to disintegrate and usually explodes after penetration. If a bullet were designed to disintegrate on impact than theoretically all you would get is a skin abrasion, there would be no penetration of the skull. 
There have been others that have used computer analysis to show that the single bullet theory is possible
Your link only showed a cover page, no ballistics information

[Michael Carney]

What do you think Hickey is going to say, of course he is going to deny holding the gun when the fatal shot was fired. 
The photo Willis 05 shows Hickey sitting and we can’t see if he is holding a gun or not. But this is 6 seconds before the head shot. Try this when you are sitting down in a chair, quickly reach down to the ground like you are grabbing something and then stand up quickly. I timed myself at 2 seconds. It takes a fraction of a second to squeeze off a round. All of that can easily be achieved in the amount of time between the second and the third shot.
Sorry, I am not buying the exhaust fumes. Not one witness said they smelled exhaust fumes, they said gunpowder. Where are the witnesses that smelled exhaust fumes?
The trajectory is not more consistent with the 6th floor of the TSBD which was something like 15 degrees whereas the head shot was more like 7 degrees. Consistent with it being fired from the car behind.
“Deductive logic ought to work with the evidence”. What evidence? You have not one witness saying they smelled exhaust fumes, they smelled gunpowder. You have an entry angle of 7 degrees, you have witnesses saying an agent was holding a rifle. I’m sorry you are not showing any “evidence” to the contrary.

[Jerry Organ]

If you were looking a Hickey when the fatal shot was fired then you would not see JFK’s brains flying out of his head. If you were watching JFK and see the pink flash you would not see Hickey holding the gun. If you were looking at the gun you would not see a muzzle blast because of the AR15’s flash suppressor.  It would be difficult for anyone to be at that correct angle looking at JFK and Hickey at the same time. If you were right beside the limos you would be looking at one or the other, you can’t see both at the same time unless you are a fair distance away. Look at the Zapruder film, it didn’t show both.
You doubt my theory I am representing here but you don’t come up with your own solutions. Tell me how you have a dozen witnesses saying a SS Agent was holding a gun,

That's certainly relevant, considering that most explicitly say that Hickey was holding the rifle AFTER the last shot and that not one explicitly says he was holding the gun before or during the head shot. Also nothing in the Bronson film to indicate Hickey is standing or falling backwards.

JFK gets shot in the head from the rear, and a dozen people smell gunpowder, not car fumes?

Cars in 1963 had no catalytic convertor; it was straight exhaust. And on Elm Street, there was the sudden full-on acceleration of two large cars. Plus hearing the sound of gunfire would influence how witnesses categorized the smell.

Tell me how that happens. If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it’s a duck.

Wouldn't agent William McIntyre (above, right) see some of Hickey's motions in dropping to the floor and popping back up with a long rifle in his hands in the 2.3 sec before the Altgens photo or the 3.2 sec after?

    "After the second shot, I looked at the President and witnessed his being struck
     in the head by the third and last shot. By that time, Mr. Roberts had used the
     radio in our car to direct the vehicles to a hospital. Most, if not all the agents
     in the follow-up car had drawn their weapons and agent Hickey was handling
     the AR-15. None of us could determine the origin of the shots, and no shots
     were fired by any agent."

He says he didn't turn forward until "after the second shot". The Altgens photo, by most LNers, is after the second shot.

[Jerry Organ]

A jacketed bullet is not designed to disintegrate upon impact. The purpose of the jacket is to keep it together and hopefully go though more than one soldier in combat. I have personally fired jacketed bullets at 2x6 piece of wood and it went straight through and went through another 2x6 a short distance beyond sideways, you could see the profile of the bullet in the second 2x6 and again straight through.

That's a soft-tissue firing test, like Mclaren's misleading melon test. No one is arguing that the Carcano bullet would stay intact from going through soft tissue. Exactly what the military-style FMJ was designed to do.

But Carcano bullets are not designed to remain intact when striking hard tissue at full-velocity. The WC discovered that a bullet fired nose-on at full velocity will mushroom and disintegrate when it struck a radius stimulant. Same with the skull experiments. Lattimer discovered the same. And Haag:

    "People ask how the bullet went through two people and was not damaged
     but the one which hit JFK’s head fragmented on impact.
        This is because when this bullet hits a hard surface — like a skull — at full
     speed it disintegrates. When I fired into a cow bone the shot broke up into
     eight pieces.
        Fragmentation happened when the second fatal shot was fired into the right
     rear of Kennedy’s head while the bullet was at full speed."
          -- Luke Haag, "My Tests Prove Oswald was a Lone Assassin" Link

So the jacketed bullet does not disintegrate, at best it will break up into sizable pieces and they would have found them during the autopsy. What they found were very small particles representative of an AR15 round, not a 6.5mm carcano round.

Haag also duplicated a hypothetical "missed shot" into the pavement (comparable to hard tissue). The Carcano bullet totally disintegrated ( Link ).

You also saw in the “smoking gun” video that the secret service directed a “technician” to tape fragment’s of a jacketed bullet to the x-rays trying to make it look like JFK was shot with a jacketed bullet.The frangible round that came out of the AR15 is designed to disintegrate and usually explodes after penetration. If a bullet were designed to disintegrate on impact than theoretically all you would get is a skin abrasion, there would be no penetration of the skull. 
There have been others that have used computer analysis to show that the single bullet theory is possible
Your link only showed a cover page, no ballistics information

It's a link to a PDF with 56 pages ( Link ). Your browser may have a script-blocker or not have an in-browser PDF-viewer. Or you didn't notice the navigation panel.

[Michael Carney]

 I can’t make out anything in the Bronson video, it’s too blurry.
I know they didn’t have catalytic converters back then but not one witness said exhaust fumes, they all said gunpowder. It certainly could have been a mix of both gunpowder and exhaust fumes. But again, they said gunpowder.
“Wouldn't agent William McIntyre (above, right) see some of Hickey's motions in dropping to the floor and popping back up with a long rifle in his hands in the 2.3 sec before the Altgens photo or the 3.2 sec after?”
After the second shot he was looking at JFK, not Hickey. The time between the second shot and the third shot could easily be 6 secs, more than enough time for Hickey to reach down, grab the AR15, and standup.
One other thing about the angle, not only was the angle not steep enough for the 6th floor of the TSBD. It is also coming from the wrong horizontal angle coming from behind left of JFK.
The only shots fired from the TSBD were from the carcano rifle, where did the 5.56mm bullet come from? Coroner measured the diameter of the hole in that back of JFK’s at 6 mm, carcano bullet diameter is 6.5 mm.

[Michael Carney]

Shot into the pavement, sure it will disintegrate then, but not shooting at a skull. At best it would break up but no fragments of a jacketed bullet were found during the autopsy, only small particles that a frangible round makes.
So the head shot was from a frangible round, not a jacketed round.  The entry hole goes along with this “theory”. The angle of entry says not from the TSBD.
The MFF site displays alright, but they want $35 to join.    

[Jerry Organ]

I can’t make out anything in the Bronson video, it’s too blurry.

At a minimum, it shows the two people on the back seat are not standing nor holding the sizable AR-15. Certainly no one has their butt above the fold-down top.

I know they didn’t have catalytic converters back then but not one witness said exhaust fumes, they all said gunpowder. It certainly could have been a mix of both gunpowder and exhaust fumes. But again, they said gunpowder.

They heard the gunshot reports. Just before or after the head shot, a siren came on so they would have been less likely to hear the sound of the acceleration of the two heavy stretch-limos. How much gunpowder smell does one little AR-15 round produce to fill up Elm Street?

“Wouldn't agent William McIntyre (above, right) see some of Hickey's motions in dropping to the floor and popping back up with a long rifle in his hands in the 2.3 sec before the Altgens photo or the 3.2 sec after?”
After the second shot he was looking at JFK, not Hickey. The time between the second shot and the third shot could easily be 6 secs, more than enough time for Hickey to reach down, grab the AR15, and standup.

Clint Hill appears to be looking at the President. McIntyre (behind Hill) appears to be looking in Hickey's direction. It was after the Altgens photo that McIntyre turned towards the President.

One other thing about the angle, not only was the angle not steep enough for the 6th floor of the TSBD. It is also coming from the wrong horizontal angle coming from behind left of JFK.

Depends on whether one trusts Donahue's placement of Kennedy's head.

The only shots fired from the TSBD were from the carcano rifle, where did the 5.56mm bullet come from? Coroner measured the diameter of the hole in that back of JFK’s at 6 mm, carcano bullet diameter is 6.5 mm.

Elastic recoil. Also easy for a half-millimeter to not be apparent with the type of rulers they had.[/quote][/quote]