Those Front Steps

[Alan Ford]

      Why do you believe that "Mr Frazier was probably the only person who noticed Mr Oswald......."?  What makes you think Frazier Might have seen Oswald in the doorway?

Because Mr Oswald was standing right in front of him! 

[Royell Storing]

Because Mr Oswald was standing right in front of him! 

     Well then, what about Shelley?

[Alan Ford]

     Well then, what about Shelley?

Mr Oswald was slightly behind (and to the left of) Mr Shelley, who was (like everyone else) focused on the P. parade (and who I believe to be PrayerPerson in Wiegman).

If Mr Shelley did see Mr Oswald, however, then he simply caved in to pressure afterwards and lied------------------just as he changed his story of when he left those steps after the shooting.

 

[Royell Storing]

Mr Oswald was slightly behind Mr Shelley, who was (like everyone else) focused on the P. parade (and who I believe to be PrayerPerson in Wiegman).

If Mr Shelley did see Mr Oswald, however, then he lied afterwards------------------just as he changed his story of when he left those steps after the shooting.

 

    The issue I have with No One seeing Oswald standing on that landing is that the landing is Less than 4 feet deep and the Door is roughly 4 feet Wide. You have a lot of people standing on that Landing in front of the 4 foot wide door with Frazier allegedly standing closest to that TSBD Door/Lobby. These people are PACKED into that limited space in front of the door yet No One has ever said they saw Oswald standing on that landing. Oswald standing in that Very limited space and going unseen does Not fly.

[Alan Ford]

    The issue I have with No One seeing Oswald standing on that landing is that the landing is Less than 4 feet deep and the Door is roughly 4 feet Wide. You have a lot of people standing on that Landing in front of the 4 foot wide door with Frazier allegedly standing closest to that TSBD Door/Lobby. These people are PACKED into that limited space in front of the door yet No One has ever said they saw Oswald standing on that landing. Oswald standing in that Very limited space and going unseen does Not fly.

Timing is everything here, Mr Storing.

If Mr Oswald went out for a few minutes awaiting the motorcade's arrival with everyone else, then yes------------it would be odd that no one would have remembered seeing him there.

But he was not one for small talk, and standing around chatting wouldn't have been his thing. I believe he stayed inside, keeping an eye and an ear out, only nipping out just in time to see JFK.

During the time he was out, the attention of everyone----------including of everyone on the landing-----------will have been focused entirely on JFK. As the limousine came down Houston Street, those on the landing will likely have stepped forward as far as they could go. Mr Frazier's height (6'0"-6'1"), however, enabled him to hang back on the landing and see over everyone's head.

The depth of the landing was quite adequate therefore for Mr Oswald to

-------pull the glass door open,
-------make his way west behind others on the landing but in front of Mr Frazier,
-------and take up his position near the edge of the landing.

I don't believe we can find Mr Oswald in the Darnell film---------------he's already gone back into the building's vestibule.

 

[Royell Storing]

Timing is everything here, Mr Storing.

If Mr Oswald went out for a few minutes awaiting the motorcade's arrival with everyone else, then yes------------it would be odd that no one would have remembered seeing him there.

But he was not one for small talk, and standing around chatting wouldn't have been his thing. I believe he stayed inside, keeping an eye and an ear out, only nipping out just in time to see JFK.

During the time he was out, the attention of everyone----------including of everyone on the landing-----------will have been focused entirely on JFK. As the limousine came down Houston Street, those on the landing will likely have stepped forward as far as they could go. Mr Frazier's height (6'0"-6'1"), however, enabled him to hang back on the landing and see over everyone's head.

The depth of the landing was quite adequate therefore for Mr Oswald to

-------pull the glass door open,
-------make his way west behind others on the landing but in front of Mr Frazier,
-------and take up his position near the edge of the landing.

I don't believe we can find Mr Oswald in the Darnell film---------------he's already gone back into the building's vestibule.

 

   Not sure Specifically where you are placing Frazier.  If Frazier is in front of the TSBD Door, then based on your description above, Oswald would have gone out the door, moved to his (R), and then stepped forward toward the street in order to be in Front of Frazier. Again, this Landing is Less than 4 feet deep and there are people scattered all over/across it. The more You have Oswald moving (R) and then Forward, the more likely he is going to be Noticed. As Freddie Blassie sang in Pencil Neck Geek, "You couldn't hardly sneeze without knocking one down". This is much the same closeness that those standing atop that Small Landing experienced.

[Alan Ford]

   Not sure Specifically where you are placing Frazier.  If Frazier is in front of the TSBD Door, then based on your description above, Oswald would have gone out the door, moved to his (R), and then stepped forward toward the street in order to be in Front of Frazier. Again, this Landing is Less than 4 feet deep and there are people scattered all over/across it. The more You have Oswald moving (R) and then Forward, the more likely he is going to be Noticed. As Freddie Blassie sang in Pencil Neck Geek, "You couldn't hardly sneeze without knocking one down". This is much the same closeness that those standing atop that Small Landing experienced.

Again, timing is key: everyone is looking in the direction of Houston Street. This is a big moment----------------the most powerful man in the world is about to pass by!

It's like someone sidling into their seat in the row behind you just as the dramatic opening scene of the movie is starting. You don't turn around, you could care less who they are.

I'm placing Mr Frazier where Wiegman places him--------------a little in front of the metal frame at the non-opening side of the door:



 

[Royell Storing]

Again, timing is key: everyone is looking in the direction of Houston Street. This is a big moment----------------the most powerful man in the world is about to pass by!

It's like someone sidling into their seat in the row behind you just as the dramatic opening scene of the movie is starting. You don't turn around, you could care less who they are.

I'm placing Mr Frazier where Wiegman places him--------------a little in front of the metal frame at the non-opening side of the door:



 

    You claim Oswald was In Front of Frazier.  With the landing being LESS than 4 feet deep, how does Oswald manage to move (R) and Forward and Only be standing in front of Frazier? The avg stride of a person is roughly 2.5 feet.  This is why having Lovelady, Shelley, Frazier, etc + OSWALD ALL on that shallow landing and ALL in front of the door does Not fit the minimal depth of the landing. Plus, you have No One seeing Oswald. If some of these individuals were standing on the top step closest to the landing, your scenario would be plausible. Everybody standing on that shallow landing, roughly in front of the door, and Oswald Moving (R) and Forward yet going unnoticed just doesn't FIT in more ways than 1.