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Author Topic: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)  (Read 62587 times)

Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #360 on: November 17, 2019, 01:41:09 PM »
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So a big game hunting rifle is a military rifle?

NOPE!......A Winchester Model 70 in 300 Magnum caliber is a civilian big game hunting rifle...   It is a civilian sporting rifle that is used by the military as a sniper rifle.... 

But more to the point.....  Even a dumb ass like you couldn't mistake a Hunting rifle with a large scope, or a 30-30  Winchester for a Mannlicher Carcano.....   

Rowland did not know the difference between any of them. Same as you.

You didn't know you were posting a video of a German Gew 88 and telling everyone it was an Italian Carcano until I told you.

So you can't hunt with a military rifle?  if you shoot an animal with a military rifle it won't die?

The 300 Win mag was not developed as a sniper rifle until the 1980's.

How about describe a "large" scope. How would Rowland know the caliber and power of the scope from where he was standing?

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #360 on: November 17, 2019, 01:41:09 PM »


Offline Jack Nessan

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #361 on: November 17, 2019, 01:44:05 PM »
Yes. If my business is selling guns, why should I care what the people buying them call them?

Why are you so attached to smearing Rowland?

I have a friend who accidently shot a customer, father of two, in the head in a sporting goods store. He would give anything to have that millisecond back. Run your business anyway you want but there are consequences for lack of judgement or knowledge of firearms.

It was alright for Rowland to appear before the WC and tell them whatever he wanted? You don't think it was important to get it right?

Offline Walt Cakebread

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #362 on: November 17, 2019, 02:46:47 PM »
Rowland did not know the difference between any of them. Same as you.

You didn't know you were posting a video of a German Gew 88 and telling everyone it was an Italian Carcano until I told you.

So you can't hunt with a military rifle?  if you shoot an animal with a military rifle it won't die?

The 300 Win mag was not developed as a sniper rifle until the 1980's.

How about describe a "large" scope. How would Rowland know the caliber and power of the scope from where he was standing?

You didn't know you were posting a video of a German Gew 88 and telling everyone it was an Italian Carcano until I told you.

You have me misidentified......    You are confused....    I own several Mannlicher Carcanos  so I certainly know what a carcano looks like.....

I'm starting to realize that you have a mental problem.....  And I'm sorry for you.   I hope medication will help.

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #362 on: November 17, 2019, 02:46:47 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #363 on: November 17, 2019, 09:47:17 PM »
I have a friend who accidently shot a customer, father of two, in the head in a sporting goods store. He would give anything to have that millisecond back. Run your business anyway you want but there are consequences for lack of judgement or knowledge of firearms.

That's tragic, but I doubt it had anything to do with him getting the name of the firearm correct.

P.S. what is a sporting goods store doing with loaded firearms in the store?

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It was alright for Rowland to appear before the WC and tell them whatever he wanted? You don't think it was important to get it right?

He was there to tell them what he saw in the windows of the Depository -- not as an expert witness on types of rifles.
« Last Edit: November 17, 2019, 09:49:46 PM by John Iacoletti »

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #364 on: November 17, 2019, 11:30:07 PM »
He was there to tell them what he saw in the windows of the Depository -- not as an expert witness on types of rifles.

And just happened to describe a black man on the 6th floor at the times that Williams was on the 6th floor. Coincidence or clairvoyance?

Specter's brief did not include the "chicken lunch" problem as the segmented inner workings of the WC assigned that problem to Ball and Belin. In addition, my recollection is that Rowland testified before Williams, Jarman and Norman.

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #364 on: November 17, 2019, 11:30:07 PM »


Offline Zeon Mason

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #365 on: November 18, 2019, 01:42:59 AM »
Here is a possible way to reconcile both Carolyn Arnold sightings of 12:15 in the lunchroom and the 12:25 sighing of Oswald in the lobby, with the Fritz notes of Oswald referencing Norman and Jarman

and the more recent find of the "outside to watch the P. Parade" note

and taking into consideration Eddie Piper sighting at 12:00 and Oswald possibly having told Piper "Im going out"

and Oswald NOT seen by anyone between 12:01 and 12:14 on the 1st floor, even though Norman was still in the Domino room at 12:00- 12:10, and Jarman was wandering around on the 1st floor eating a sandwich from 12:00 to 12:10 approx. After which, both Norman and Jarman exit about 12:10 by the back loading dock door, and arrive at the front TSBD by 12:15

And Buell W. Frazier not having seen Oswald with a lunch size paper bag (unless Oswald put a lunch bag inside the longer 24-27" bag Frazer)

The sequence is therefore:

Oswald comes down to 1st floor at 12:00, meets Piper, and the reason to even say anything at all to Piper, was because Oswald was going to leave the building to go "Out" in order to buy some lunch. Thus Oswald was letting Piper know, so that Mr. Truly would know not to waste his time looking for Oswald inside the building or sending someone to find Oswald.

Just before Oswald returns to the TSBD, probably via back door loading dock, Norman and Jarman leave via that door about 12:10 and go around the outside perimeter. Its possible Oswald could have had LOS to them at this point in time, as they go around the corner, past the Domino room.

Oswald returns into TSBD via back door at about 12:12, stops by the Dr. Pepper machined on the 1st floor by the back staircase, gets the bottle of pop, and goes up to 2nd floor to see if its empty of the office women yet. As he reaches the 2nd floor landing, he sees Sarah Stanton, and Stanton see him. Oswald sees also possibly, a few other women still in the lunchroom so pretends he is just on his way up to another floor. Sarah sees Oswald with the Dr.Pepper in hand, which she may have told a relative some years later, and the relative remembered it as "Pepsi"

Oswald goes up about halfway the next staircase and just sits there,on the midlevel 3rd floor stair waiting and listening, hoping the rest of women will leave and the 2nd floor lunchroom will be vacated. He is out of line of sight here .

About 12:15, Oswald goes back down a half flight of stairs from 3rd floor mid landing where he had been sitting, and he sees that the 2nd floor lunchroom is now vacated. He goes in and sits down. Possibly he may have taken off his jacket and or his brown shirt here too.

Carolyn Arnold then comes to get some water and sees Oswald sitting in the 2nd floor lunchroom approximately 12:15. She then leaves, probably returning to the front staircase, using the outer hallway, where she joins up with Virgie Rachley in the front Lobby by about 12:17 and by 12:20 they are standing near Mrs Reid and Mr. Campbell on the curb of Elm st.

About 12:22, there is radio transmission on one of the motorcycles near Norman and Jarman announcing the JFK motorcade is about to arrive in Dealey Plaza. Norman and Jamans thus depart to return to TSBD, going back around the side and to the rear loadking dock, returning thru the back door, and then to get on the rear West elevator approximately by 12:23

At 12:23, Oswald is still in the 2nd floor lunchroom. He has not quite yet finished his Dr.Pepper, but has finished his lunch. He decides he will go down "to see the P.Parade out front" .

Oswald exits the 2nd floor lunchroom about 12:23:15 and just misses seeing Norman/Jarman on the West elevator going up. However, he does HEAR them talking on the elevator.

Oswald then goes down, to the 1st floor, using the rear staircase, and across the floor, passing by Trulys office and into the front lobby, where he stops to the right side of the glass door entrance, and looks out thru the right side glass partition. This is about 12:25pm

Carolyn Arnold looks back towards the TSBD entrance and sees Oswald inside the Lobby at this time of 12:25, Oswald being visible thru the glass partition.

Now What?  Does Oswald go out? Does Oswald stay inside the lobby and witnesses the JFK motorcade going past, hears the shots, then goes where? Back up to the 2nd floor lunchroom? Or to the first floor Storage room beside the front staircase?



 



« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 01:45:09 AM by Zeon Mason »

Offline Alan Ford

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #366 on: November 18, 2019, 08:44:51 AM »
Now What?  Does Oswald go out? Does Oswald stay inside the lobby and witnesses the JFK motorcade going past, hears the shots, then goes where? Back up to the 2nd floor lunchroom? Or to the first floor Storage room beside the front staircase?

No, he goes "outside to watch P. parade". Not difficult!  Thumb1:

But what has this got to do with what Mr Rowland saw?

Offline Colin Crow

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #367 on: November 18, 2019, 10:09:11 AM »
No, he goes "outside to watch P. parade". Not difficult!  Thumb1:

But what has this got to do with what Mr Rowland saw?

Essentially Rowland's contribution is consistent with the sequence that the assembled evidence clearly shows. Williams departed the 6th floor after the arrival of Jarman and Norman on the 5th. They departed the intersection of Elm and Houston about 12.22pm.

To date, no serious challenge to that sequence as far as I can tell. We are simply debating where Williams was located. Williams was repeated obfuscatory as evidenced by his previous numerous statements prior to his WC testimony. This also cannot be seriously challenged. One might theorise why he felt the need to lie given the gravity of the situation he found himself in. One might also ask why Jarman and Norman felt the need to repeatedly claim he took the elevator up with them until 4 months after the event.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2019, 10:17:59 AM by Colin Crow »

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Re: A Better Sequence (TM DVP)
« Reply #367 on: November 18, 2019, 10:09:11 AM »