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Author Topic: Tippit Shooting, 1:15  (Read 110579 times)

Offline Bill Chapman

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #616 on: November 22, 2019, 07:26:41 PM »
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Ok, they put an unloaded gun in his hand, whatever floats your boat.

JohnM

Good one

Yeah, Oswald was attempting to commit suicide-by-cop
 ::)

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #616 on: November 22, 2019, 07:26:41 PM »


Offline John Iacoletti

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #617 on: November 22, 2019, 08:28:00 PM »
Oswald was attempting to watch a movie before he was illegally searched, detained, beaten up and arrested for murder because a shoe salesman thought he looked funny.

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #618 on: November 22, 2019, 08:52:29 PM »
Quote
Mr. BALL. What called your attention to this incident?
Mr. SMITH. I heard some shots.
Mr. BALL And what? You looked down that way?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. What did you see?
Mr. SMITH. Saw Oswald running and policeman falling.
Mr. BALL. Did you see his face, or just his back?
Mr. SMITH. Saw the side of him, the side and back of him when he was running.
Mr. BALL. Did you see him before he ran?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Quote
Mr. BALL. Did you give your name to the police?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir.
Mr. BALL. Why?
Mr. SMITH. Because I was on probation. I thought it might hurt my probation record.
Mr. BALL. All right; you did tell someone you had seen it, didn't you?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Who?
Mr. SMITH. This boy I ran around with.
Mr. BALL. What's his name?
Mr. SMITH. James Markham.
Mr. BALL. Is he the son of Helen Markham?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to her?
Mr. SMITH. No, sir; she talks to me.
Mr. BALL. Mrs. Markham talked to you?
Mr. SMITH. Yes.
Mr. BALL. And did you tell Mrs. Markham?
Mr. SMITH. I told her what I saw and that is the reason I am here, I a----
Mr. BALL. Did the police come out and see you?
Mr. SMITH. The FBI.
Mr. BALL. The FBI did? Did you tell them the same story you told me?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Now, did you see Oswald on television?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. On the night of the shooting?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/smith.htm

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #618 on: November 22, 2019, 08:52:29 PM »


Offline John Mytton

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #619 on: November 22, 2019, 09:14:22 PM »
Oswald was attempting to watch a movie before he was illegally searched, detained, beaten up and arrested for murder because a shoe salesman thought he looked funny.

Mr. BALL. What did he say.
Mr. FRITZ. He denied it---that he did not. The only thing he said he had done wrong, "The only law I violated was in the show; I hit the officer in the show; he hit me in the eye and I guess I deserved it." He said, "That is the only law I violated." He said, "That is the only thing I have done wrong."


JohnM

Online Charles Collins

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #620 on: November 22, 2019, 11:38:29 PM »
Correct.  The police are lying, not Oswald.   ::)

Bill, when it's all said and done, these clowns here just can't accept the fact that the cop-killing Oswald got exactly what he deserved.


At the time, there was a lot of other people angry enough to do what Ruby had the balls to do. He was wrong to take justice into his own hands. And he paid the price for it. I believe that Oswald would have been convicted and fried for his crimes.

In one way, I am glad that Oswald didn't get a chance to experience the attention for very long. However, he did legally have a right to his day in court. The thought that brings closure to me is that LHO is in hell and has to endure for eternity Satan taunting him with the fact that most people don't believe that he was capable of pulling this off all by himself. For someone with his ego that would be hell in itself...

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #620 on: November 22, 2019, 11:38:29 PM »


Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #621 on: November 23, 2019, 12:05:59 AM »

At the time, there was a lot of other people angry enough to do what Ruby had the balls to do. He was wrong to take justice into his own hands. And he paid the price for it. I believe that Oswald would have been convicted and fried for his crimes.

In one way, I am glad that Oswald didn't get a chance to experience the attention for very long. However, he did legally have a right to his day in court. The thought that brings closure to me is that LHO is in hell and has to endure for eternity Satan taunting him with the fact that most people don't believe that he was capable of pulling this off all by himself. For someone with his ego that would be hell in itself...
Charles. your post gives an impression Ruby was disgruntled random guy in reaction to Oswald.... Ruby the outraged American gunning down the evil doer, still welcome to date the daughter of any cop in the DPD basement after he was
disarmed and wrestled to the ground. I was in junior high school on November 24, but I picked up on the general reaction of the adults in my life at that time. Ruby was assigned/coerced to be the closer, plain as the noses on our faces. Isn't that what this is still all about?

Criticism pf lack of FBI reaction to details collected by Ruby acquaintance Bobby Gene Moore, below article image.:








Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rich_n.htm
......
Mr SPECTER. What was the purpose of Jack Ruby's visiting Kay?
Mr OLSEN. Sometimes he would be mad about something, and mad at an employee, or sometimes he would stop by for breakfast after he closed his club.
Mr SPECTER. Was there ever any romantic connection between Jack Ruby and Kay?
Mr OLSEN. Not to my knowledge.
Mr SPECTER. It was just a cordial relationship which would lead him to stop over and pay her a visit and have breakfast or something to that effect?
Mr OLSEN. Yes.
Mr SPECTER. Was Ruby friendly with many police officers employed by the Dallas Police Department?
Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr SPECTER. What were the circumstances surrounding his friendship for police officers?
Mr OLSEN. He seemed to like police officers.
Mr SPECTER. Was there any special reason for his affinity for police officers, or for liking them especially?
Mr OLSEN. No, he Just seemed to be friendly with all of them, wanted to know them.
Mr SPECTER. Did you know Officer J. D. Tippit?
Mr OLSEN. Yes, sir.
Mr SPECTER. Did you know him very well?
Mr OLSEN. No, sir.

Charles, will you agree Chief Curry is grossly understating, (giving perjured testimony) how many officers of his command were personally acquainted with Jack Ruby? What would motivate the Chief to deliberately mislead the American people?
Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/curry1.htm

Mr. RANKIN - Did you find out where Jack Ruby was during this showup?
Mr. CURRY - I didn't know Jack Ruby. Actually the first time I saw Jack Ruby to know Jack Ruby was in a bond hearing or I believe it was a bond hearing, and I recognized him sitting at counsel's table.
The impression has been given that a great many-of the Dallas Police Department knew Jack Ruby.
Mr. RANKIN - What is the fact in that regard?
Mr. CURRY - The fact of that as far as I know there are a very small percentage of the Dallas Police Department that knows Jack Ruby.
Mr. RANKIN - Did you make an inquiry to find out?
Mr. CURRY - Yes; I did, yes, sir. And so far as I know most of the men who knew Jack Ruby
are men who were assigned to the vice squad of the police department or who had worked the radio patrol district where he had places and in the course----
Mr. RANKIN - How many men would that be?
Mr. CURRY - I am guessing, perhaps 25 men. This is merely a guess on my part.
Mr. RANKIN - How large is your police force?
Mr. CURRY - Approximately 1,200. I would say 1,175 people. I would say less, I believe less than 50 people knew him. From what I have found out since then that he is the type that if he saw a policeman, or he came to his place of business he would probably run up and make himself acquainted with him.
I also have learned since this time he tried to ingratiate himself with any of the news media or any of the reporters who had anything to do, he was always constantly trying to get publicity for his clubs or for himself....
Quote
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=955&relPageId=138&search=ruby_skating
 
1. HSCA Report, Volume IX, pg 130
Found in: HSCA Appendix Volumes
for the christening of his child, born in 1963. (59) Detective Cody has said that he and Ruby went ice skating together, adding that Ruby was an avid
Captain Will Fritz, the head of homicide, strongly de- nied knowing Ruby,(64) saying that the first time he saw Ruby was when Ruby was arrested following
) Reagan Thurman, a long-time friend of Ruby's, said the same. (71) Despite Ruby's many police friendships, incidents similar to Detective Cody's ice-skating

Quote
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/rich_n.htm

...Mr. HUBERT. What customers did you serve hard liquor to?
Mrs. RICH. Whomever I was told to.
Mr. HUBERT. You don't know their names?
Mrs. RICH. I couldn't quote you names, perhaps.
Mr. HUBERT. Who told you to serve them?
Mrs. RICH. Mr. Ruby. It was a standing order. For a particular group of people. Then whenever he would come in and say, "This is private stock stuff," that would mean for me to go where I knew the hard liquor was and get it out, and get it ready for the people in his private office.
Mr. HUBERT. What was the particular group--who did it consist of?
Mrs. RICH. The police department.
Mr. HUBERT. Are you saying that Jack Ruby told you that when any member of the police department came in, that there was a standing order that you could serve them hard liquor?
Mrs. RICH. That is correct....

Didn't Curry first answer,

Quote
....Mr. RANKIN - Did you make an inquiry to find out?
Mr. CURRY - Yes; I did, yes, sir.

Was Curry'd testimony about this actually worth anything? What about your opinion? You give no indication you have any inclination Jack Ruby was handpicked for this "witness tampering," by other hands...

Maybe I am jealous of you, if you do indeed have superior discernment permitting you to accurately determine what is reliable
info and what is not. I also wish I had your confidence, if you are actually better informed than I am always  trying to become.
Quote
https://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/11/20/exclusive-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks-for-1st-time/
Exclusive: JFK Assassination Witness Speaks For 1st Time
CBS4 Investigative Reporter Jilda Unruh Contributed To This Report
November 20, 2013 at 6:13 pm

....What hasn’t been shared before is what Nelson said happened just before the shooting and then in the immediate aftermath.

According to Nelson, right before Oswald was brought to the basement, a Dallas Police decoy car was brought to the basement and plain clothes cops were put inside the car to distract the media from the real transfer vehicle.

The decoy car drove up the north ramp, which Nelson said was actually the entry ramp to the basement.

“They drove up the north ramp which was actually the entry ramp into the basement and drove around the block,” Nelson said.

Nelson said the lieutenant driving the decoy car came walking back through his area after parking in the basement again. Nelson said he was positive that Ruby had not passed him to get into the basement.

According to Nelson, Lieutenant Sam Pierce said Ruby walked right by the decoy car and walked down the north ramp into the basement. Shortly after the shooting, however, Nelson was told Dallas Chief of Police Jesse Curry wanted to see him.

When Nelson got to Chief Curry’s office, he saw Lieutenant Pierce was already in the office. The chief told Nelson, “R.C., this isn’t going to be held against you with all the TV cameras that were coming into the basement.”

Nelson thought Chief Curry was implying that Ruby had gotten past him. Nelson said he told the chief that, “You can tell them anything you want, but Ruby didn’t come by me!”...

Charles, have you researched DPD detective Sansone and his ties to Civello in-law Phil Bosco? Sansone killed a man while moonlighting behind the liquor store counter of one of this organized crime crew. Curry was aware of Sansone's reputation, and FBI records indicate the only trust they put in DPD related to their intel about Sansone was in intel sharing with Lt. Jack Revill.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=81867&search=waggoner_and+gambler#relPageId=3&tab=page
Link above displays some of the =4redacted details....



!972: Sansone and Bosco and their LCN associates still conducting "business" as usual. on Ross Street:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339051/m1/1/
 

1955, off-duty Det. Sansone shoots alleged armed robber in LCN associate owned, Ross St. Liquor Store he is part-time clerk at.
[/img]


...and Charles, Irv Kupcinet just happened to write a column in Chicago Sun-Times with Ruby life-long buddy Jimmy Colitz who co-owned the Clover Bar next to the offices in the Sherman Hotel of that Hotel group. The president of the Hotel Group was Pat Hoy, directly linked to Tony Accardo's #2, Gus Alex. In 1958, Howard Willens's father Joseph moved himself and Willens's mom into the residence directly adjacent to Accardo's resident in River Forest, IL. Read the Warren Report.

WC Asst. Counsel BrianJenner Jr was personal lawyer of Henry Crown, who hired Pat Hoy to be a General Dynamics V.P.
Howard Willens testified to HSCA he not only made the decision to end the WC investigation of Jack Ruby, he also was responsible for structuring the areas of the WC each Asst. Counsel was responsible for. I'll leave it to you to research the investigative responsibilities BrianJenner was assigned to conduct.

Irv Kupcinet and his wife Essie spent a portion of ever evening from 1943 to early 2000s in "Booth 1" of the Pump Room restaurant in the Ambassador East Hotel in Chocago. Patrick Hoy had risen from Maitre D of that room to President of the group. His boss was Ernest L Byfield. After Byfield died in 1950, Ernie Jr. represented the owners of the Hotel group as chairman. Ernie Jr's mom just happened to be JFK's Glen Ora weekend White House  landlady from Nov., 1960 until spring, 1963.

Ernie Jr's wife's (Vala Osterman) sister was wife of Placido Eversun, business partner/first cousin of Rionda and George Braga.
Ernie Jr's second wife, Diana, married elderly JFK defense secretary Robert S McNamara shortly after Ernie Jr. died.

Quote
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/16754-was-irv-kupcinets-role-obscured-a-consequence-of-penn-joness-writing/
Was Irv Kupcinet's Role Obscured A Consequence of Penn Jones's Writing? - 126,531 views
By Guest Tom Scully, October 12, 2010

http://www.chicagoreader.com/chicago/kup-vs-jfk/Content?oid=881114
Kup vs. JFK
Chronicle of a Columnist's Obsession
By Jim Kielty  Year In Review archives »
December 24, 1992  NEWS & POLITICS | YEAR IN REVIEW
In an essay on the Oliver Stone film JFK, published a month after his laudatory review in the Sun-Times, Roger Ebert wrote: "Never in my years as a newspaperman have I seen one subject pummeled so mercilessly and joylessly as this movie that questions the official wisdom on the assassination of John F. Kennedy."

Ebert didn't have to look far to find the chief Chicago-area pummeler: his Sun-Times colleague Irv Kupcinet has repeatedly used his column to flail JFK, Oliver Stone, and anyone else who has dared to challenge the findings of the Warren Commission report.

Between December 17 of last year, when he first reviewed JFK as the lead item in his column, and May 22 of this year, when the Sun-Times reviewed the home video version (and I stopped counting), Kup ran more than two dozen items on Stone, his film, and other Kennedy assassination subjects. He also called for the opening of sealed government files on the assassination, venturing that the information contained therein will put an end to "far-fetched conspiracy theories," by which he seems to mean anything other than the Warren Commission report.....
.......
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 02:33:35 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Tom Scully

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #622 on: November 23, 2019, 01:28:16 AM »
Continued from post on bottom of last page.:

Charles, DPD detective Charles Sansone was not arrested until 1966, later reinstated to DPD Detective, but he still got his DPD pension later and was welcomed
at annual picnics of DPD veterans....details of his arrest and his ties to LCN in Dallas.:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=81867&search=waggoner_and+gambler#relPageId=3&tab=page
Link above displays some of the =4redacted details....


Names here ring a bell? Det. Sansone ties to the Campisis brothers. Wasn't Ruby associated with the Campisiis?

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=77634&relPageId=8&search=revill_and%20sansone

http://documents.theblackvault.com/documents/jfk/NARA-Oct2017/2018/docid-32290855-1.pdf
Pg 1. January, 1962

RE~ PHILIP STEPHEN BOSCO p aka. AR . ~ IGA {DL 92=331) .
Ol!l 1/20/ 6'·2 v SA BAR.RET1' observed t.he car of Dallas PD police detectiv® (taJ.uto theft squ~d) CHARLES SANSONE, parked at Boscous service sta.tioJ.m. The car 9 a ·l955 pink and white Buick

!972: Sansone and Bosco and their LCN associates still conducting "business" as usual. on Ross Street:

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339051/m1/1/
 

1955, off-duty Det. Sansone shoots alleged armed robber in LCN associate owned, Ross St. Liquor Store he is part-time clerk at.


That 2604 Ross Liquor store:
« Last Edit: November 23, 2019, 02:51:30 AM by Tom Scully »

Offline Jerry Freeman

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #623 on: November 23, 2019, 04:02:58 AM »
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/smith.htm
I guess the post above just blew by and no one gets it. More concerned with piddly poop and bickering than with facts....
Quote
Mr. BALL. Did something happen a little after 1 o'clock there that day that you noticed?
Mr. SMITH. Yes, sir; policeman got shot.
Mr. BALL. Now, at the time the policeman was shot, where were you?
Mr. SMITH. In the front yard, at 505 East 10th.
Fact...Smith was some nearly 400 ft away from the Tippit shooting. How could he identify anyone from that far away? Really great eyes huh?
Quote
408 E 10th St
Dallas, TX 75203
Head northeast on E 10th St toward N Denver St
Destination will be on the left
397 ft
505 E 10th St
Dallas, TX 75203---google maps
Smith ..saw the [the policeman] falling and the [shooter] running away at the same time? Maybe there was more than one shooter after all.
Interesting that the FBI located him and his buddy Jimmy Burt.
Quote
JIMMY EARL BURT, General Delivery stated that on November 22, 1963 he was living at 505 E. 10th Street, Dallas, Texas which is the residence of his father—in—law, DAVID SHAEFER. He and a friend WILLIAM SMITH were sitting in his brother, BILLY BURT's house located at the corner of 9th and Denver Streets, Dallas. It was some time after lunch when they heard two gunshots. He and SMITH immediately ran from the house toward his car, a 1952 two—tone blue Ford which was parked facing south on Denver Street. As they ran from the house they heard four more shots making a total of six. BURT Said he drove his car to the next intersection which is Denver and 10th Streets and turned west on 10th. He immediately saw a police car parked at the curb in the middle of the block. It was parked facing east on 10th Street. A police officer was lying on the street near the left front wheel. BURT later recognized him as being an officer who frequented that neighborhood. This particular officer was known by the name "Friendly" to the residents of that area.
BURT parked his car in front of the police car on the same side of the street with the front end facing the west. He and SMITH jumped out of the car and as they did so he looked west on 10th Street. At that moment he caught a glimpse of a man running on the sidewalk on the south side of the street. The man at this point had reached the intersection of 10th and Patton Streets. He described this man as a white male, approximately 5'8". He was wearing a light colored short jacket. BURT stated he could not describe the man further as he was never closer than 50 to 60 yards from the man. He said at one point he did notice the man had a pistol in his right hand. Although he is familiar with hand weapons he said that because of the distance he could not describe the pistol. At the intersection of 10th and Patton Streets the man ran south on Patton Street. BURT said he ran to the intersection of 10th and Patton and when he was close enough to Patton Street to see to the south he saw the man running into an alley located between 10th and Jefferson Avenue on Patton Street. The man ran in the alley to the right and would be running west at this point.
http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/burt.htm
I have often read that this was not Tippit's regular beat. Why did Tippit 'frequent the neighborhood'? Sources said that he had a girlfriend who lived nearby.
Burt and Smith hopped into a car and drove to the shooting site? Wow...too lazy to run? And they still managed to park the car next to the squad car and see the shooter [or one of the shooters] still running away from the scene? I would say that this was impossible.
Burt said he heard a total of six shots. Think his ears were as good as his eyes?

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Re: Tippit Shooting, 1:15
« Reply #623 on: November 23, 2019, 04:02:58 AM »