Tippit Shooting, 1:15

[Alan Hardaker]

So you're good at arithmetic...  That's GREATTT!!...Because perhaps you'll be able to figger out the time elapsed between 1:04 and 1:05 or possible 1:06....

Lee Oswald was seen standing in front of 1026 N. Beckley at 1:04..( according to his landlady Mrs Roberts) and Mrs Markham saw a young man ( the man who shot JD Tippit) walking east on Tenth at about 1:05  ( Markham said she saw Tippit shot to death at 1:06)

How much time elapsed between 1:04 and 1:06??

Looking at Mrs.Markhams testimony, sworn testimony. She states that she was walking South towards Jefferson.When asked about the time she said "It was a little after 1.." and " I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1". Looks like, at this point she had not arrived at the bus stop area so that testimony is not very clear on timings. And she doesn't actually put a precise time on the shooting. She said "yes,this man shot the Policeman" There does not appear to be any reference to the actual time of the killing. 

[Alan Hardaker]

I think the case for Oswald would need another witness corroboration of Mrs Markham timings

I assume that you mean the case for Lee's innocence would need another witness.... Well it just so happens that your wish for corroboration of Helen Markham's sworn statement that Tippit was shot at 1:06 was verified by a man named TF Bowley.    Mr Bowley arrived at the murder scene at 1:10 ( according to his sworn affidavit)  And saw officer Tippit lying on the street near the left front wheel of his squad car.  Obviously Tippit had been shot a few minutes before Bowley arrived at 1:10....

But that doesn't corroborate Mrs.Markham. It simple says TF Bowley, according to his watch, arrived at the crime scene at 1.10. He also stated that another person at the scene said "lets catch him" This could indicate the gunman had only left the scene shortly before TF Bowley arrives. So it's actually very difficult to put a precise time on the actual killing.

Which could put in doubt any claim that a gunman would not have time to be at the crime scene as the time of the actual murder is not clear.

[Martin Weidmann]

Looking at Mrs.Markhams testimony, sworn testimony. She states that she was walking South towards Jefferson.When asked about the time she said "It was a little after 1.." and " I wouldn't be afraid to bet it wasn't 6 or 7 minutes after 1". Looks like, at this point she had not arrived at the bus stop area so that testimony is not very clear on timings. And she doesn't actually put a precise time on the shooting. She said "yes,this man shot the Policeman" There does not appear to be any reference to the actual time of the killing.

I have tried this serveral times in the past, but so far no LNr has even tried to come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day. And before you go there, yes I know that according to the bus schedule (which btw nobody has ever been able to show me) there was a bus at 1.12 and one at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, most likely around 1.06, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He arrived after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time and be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit.

But even if we are kind to the LNs and accept that Bowley didn't pick up his daughter on time (leaving her waiting for 5 minutes or longer) and did not leave the school until 1 PM, he still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:13, which of course would have been prior to the shooting of Tippit at 1:15, as the WC narrative claims.

These two timelines alone justify, IMO, the conclusion that Tippit was in fact shot before 1:10 pm, which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there. But perhaps the LNs can provide a plausible scenario for these two timelines to be wrong...? I'll wait and see, but I won't hold my breath.

[Walt Cakebread]

I have tried this serveral times in the past, but so far no LNr has even tried to come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day. And before you go there, yes I know that according to the bus schedule (which btw nobody has ever been able to show me) there was a bus at 1.12 and one at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit.

But even if we are kind to the LNs and accept that Bowley didn't pick up his daughter on time (leaving her waiting for 5 minutes or longer) and did not leave the school until 1 PM, he still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:13, which of course would have been prior to the shooting of Tippit at 1:15, as the WC narrative claims.

These two timelines alone justify, IMO, the conclusion that Tippit was in fact shot before 1:10 pm, which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there. But perhaps the LNs can provide a plausible scenario for these two timelines to be wrong...? I'll wait an see, but I won't hold my breath.

I won't hold my breath.

Why Not ?....  Our little Chappie holds his breath... and kicks his little feet in a tantrum every time someone proves that he's wrong.   ( which is often)

[Ted Shields]

I have tried this serveral times in the past, but so far no LNr has even tried to come up with a plausible scenario for Markham still being at 10th/Patton at 1:14 or 1:15 when she testified she left home "a little after 1" and the one block walk from her home on 9th street to the corner of 10th street and Patton would have taken her only 2, perhaps 3 minutes. Markham estimated in her testimony that she took the 1.15 bus to work every day. And before you go there, yes I know that according to the bus schedule (which btw nobody has ever been able to show me) there was a bus at 1.12 and one at 1.22. It actually doesn't matter which bus Markham was talking about, because a walk of two blocks to the bus stop would have taken her no more than 6 minutes. So, if she left home "a little after 1" she would have easily been at the bus stop at around 1.15 and thus not at 10th/Patton. In other words, Tippit must have been shot earlier than 1.15, most likely around 1.06, because otherwise Markham could not have witnessed it.

The same thing goes for Bowley. He arrived after Tippit was killed. In his affidavit he said he picked up his daughter at R.L. Thornton School in Singing Hills at "about 12:55". School bells, in my experience, have a tendency to ring at the correct time every day! Now, let's also not forget that, after picking up his daughter, Bowley was also going to pick up his wife from work, to go on a family holiday and thus had every reason to be on time and be aware of the time! The drive from the school to 10th/Patton is about 7 miles long and takes roughly 13 minutes, depending on the route, making it absolutely possible and plausible for him to arrive at 10th street at 1.10 pm, like he said he did in his affidavit.

But even if we are kind to the LNs and accept that Bowley didn't pick up his daughter on time (leaving her waiting for 5 minutes or longer) and did not leave the school until 1 PM, he still would have arrived at 10th/Patton at 1:13, which of course would have been prior to the shooting of Tippit at 1:15, as the WC narrative claims.

These two timelines alone justify, IMO, the conclusion that Tippit was in fact shot before 1:10 pm, which makes it nearly impossible for Oswald to have been there. But perhaps the LNs can provide a plausible scenario for these two timelines to be wrong...? I'll wait and see, but I won't hold my breath.

Fairly selective. What about the other witnesses? Davis sisters (in law), Scoggins, Benavides et al.

Ignoring them?

[Martin Weidmann]

Fairly selective. What about the other witnesses? Davis sisters (in law), Scoggins, Benavides et al.

Ignoring them?

No, but none of the other witnesses had a reason to be acutely aware of the time.

Markham needed to catch the bus to go to work and Bowley had to pick up his daughter from school and his wife from work.

Selective or not, the combination of Markham's testimony and Bowley's affidavit provides a solid timeline which also fits perfectly with Tippit being declared DOA at the hospital at 1.15.

[John Iacoletti]

The LN scenario goes something like this:

Markham’s washateria clock was chronically 6 or 7 minutes slow and she had no other timepiece so she always thought that her 1:22 bus was a 1:15 bus. Therefore, when she said she left at 6 or 7 minutes after 1:00, it was actually 1:12-1:13 and she got to 10th & Patton just in time for Tippit’s shooting at 1:16.

[Ray Mitcham]

The LN scenario goes something like this:

Markham’s washateria clock was chronically 6 or 7 minutes slow and she had no other timepiece so she always thought that her 1:22 bus was a 1:15 bus. Therefore, when she said she left at 6 or 7 minutes after 1:00, it was actually 1:12-1:13 and she got to 10th & Patton just in time for Tippit’s shooting at 1:16.

And the hospital clock where Tippit was taken must have been slow as the correct times on the sheets were altered subsequently. There must have been a problem over the whole of Dallas that morning causing all these clocks and watches to be slow.